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Susan 00:09
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help HR and business leaders embrace joy in the workplace. I’m Susan White, owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, an HR consulting practice. With me is my co-host and dear friend JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, a large HR consulting firm.

Susan 00:27
Our topic today is 2022 HR trends. For our first episode of 2022, we thought it would be a perfect time to talk about what is hot in the world of people leadership, so as business leaders and HR practitioners, we are as up to date as we can be. Today, we’re going to share current trends that Visier – who’s a well known organization that helps companies with their employee retention, diversity, equity, inclusion, and engagement – reports as the workplace trends of 2022. And then we’re going to team up with some of our favorite fellow podcasters to chat about the HR trends we personally think are going to be big this year. We hope you enjoy the discussion. Make sure you check out the other panelists’ podcasts that we will be mentioning. We’ll put links to their podcasts in the show notes to make it easy. On with the show.

Susan 01:18
Visier recently released “Workplace Trends 2022: The Age of Employees Is Here,” report that cites 10 trends. JoDee, why don’t you start us out?

JoDee 01:29
Well, first of all, I love just the title of the report already, right? “The Age of Employees Is Here.” Because it’s about time.

Susan 01:39
[Laughs] Amen.

JoDee 01:39
Yes, but their first one is workplace data democratization is in the future. That means giving everyone access, instead of just HR, to people-related data to make data-informed decisions.

Susan 01:56
Number two, the new employer-employee social contract. I think it’s really the repairing some of the damage from the decades of employees being treated as disposable assets, and really focusing on them as human assets, that’s really valuable.

JoDee 02:11
Yeah. Number three, work becomes an experiment in radical flexibility. Of course, that’s been that one we’ve been working on for the past couple of years, but it’s here to stay, and I think there’s some opportunities to think more about this work anywhere, anytime, hybrid models. So.

Susan 02:32
Number four, productivity focuses on output, not the hours put in.

JoDee 02:38
Number five, targeted retention strategies stem rising resignations. That’s about listening and doing what it takes to keep our staff. We gotta think differently about this one for sure.

Susan 02:53
Yes. Number six, employee experience elevates to customer experience levels. We’ve talked about this in prior podcasts. If we could treat our employees as well as we try to treat our customers, we’re going to have a winning combination. So really using what we’ve learned from enhancing customer experiences and applying it to our employee experiences.

JoDee 03:13
Can’t you just hear future generations on that one say, “You mean you used to be nice to your customers but not your people?” Like…

Susan 03:22
[Laughs] What’s wrong with you?

JoDee 03:24
[Laughs] It seems so obvious.

JoDee 03:24
The diversity, equity and inclusion success is everyone’s responsibility. And it’s about… it… It’s not about having just a committee who talks about it but incorporating it in everything we do.

Susan 03:40
Number eight, change management gets a data-driven boost, really using data tools to anticipate where and when change is needed.

JoDee 03:49
And number nine, micro-learning puts reskilling on the fast track. It’s about quick bursts of development and immediate coaching along with it.

Susan 04:01
And the final one, number 10. AI-powered work cultures take shape. That’s really using all the artificial intelligence that’s out there to make sure that we’re being really human focused about it and ensuring touch points between AI and humans that enhance the workplace.

Susan 04:18
To talk about what we see as 2022 trends on the people front, we’ve invited two of our favorite podcasters to join us for today’s discussion. First, we have Derrin Slack, founder of ProAct and host of Stood in the Gap. And our second friend joining today is Liesel Mertes, a workplace empathy consultant and host of the podcast Handle with Care. Each of the four of us are going to share what we think the number one topical opportunity business leaders and HR professionals may want to focus on in 2022 in order to be ahead of the curve and create JoyPowered® workspaces. Hello, Derrin! Hello, Liesel! How are you?

JoDee 04:58
Hello!

Liesel 05:00
I’m well, glad to join you today.

JoDee 05:02
Yeah, thanks for being here.

Derrin 05:03
How you guys doing?

Susan 05:04
Thank you both for joining us today to do this. So Derrin, why don’t you start us off? What do you see as a real trend for 2022?

Derrin 05:12
Well, thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure. One trend I see that’s going to be really prevalent this upcoming year is the new employer-employee social contract. I think as an employer, where I sit, and being the CEO of ProAct, I think COVID has really shown us that we really need to look at how the employer and employee relationship looks. We all hear about this “Great Resignation” and… and the implications of it, because of how the workplace has been so disrupted and changed for I think forever from COVID. And I think we need to revisit how our cultures look, how our… our performance management systems look, and how… how we interact as employers with our employees. And in particular, I think the trends are that we need to move more – and Liesl touched on this at a recent talk I just heard her do, like, earlier this week – we need to move more towards a culture that focuses on empathy, focuses on looking at our employees as people and not as objects. I think, as difficult as it is to admit, I think most employers look at employees as objects. They’re a means to an end and they’re a resource to really increase one bottom line, and that’s the bottom line that’s… that deals with finances. Right? But in the work that I do, we have two bottom lines. It’s not only the financial impact, but the impact on the communities and the people we serve. And so in order to raise that second bottom line, we need to really invest in our employees and look at them as people and recognize that they are human beings with hopes, needs, and desires that will really help bring value to any organization or company, if we see them as such.

Liesel 07:17
I love that, Derrin. I really like the phrasing of a new “social contract.” Is there anybody out there who’s really blazing the way and implementing this sort of social contract in a way that you say, “Yeah, this is… this is a model to emulate in some ways.”?

Susan 07:35
I have to say that I think startups are… many of the startups that are growing like wildfire have really figured this out quickly. Because I think they realize that they’re trying to get top talent, they’re trying to grow really, really fast. And all of the kind of norms that we grew up with in corporate America, where we looked at FTEs and they were an expense item, and all the things that… how do we squeeze out, you know, do more with less, all those things that we grew up on. At startups, they have a whole different mindset. It’s like, let’s get the best talent we can get in here. Doesn’t matter what we pay them, let’s treat them really well. Let’s give them free food. Let’s open the bar on Fridays at 11am. All those types of things that… I think that there’s probably, you know, a balance that we need to do, but I think that these really rapid growth companies, I mean, you could name… Airbnb, you could name just on and on the companies that have done a wonderful job of growing so fast. I think they recognize what Derrin’s saying is that, we’re going to be able to do this because of the bright talent we bring in, and without them, we’re not gonna be able to do this new creative, disruptive work we want to do.

JoDee 08:42
You know, when you look back, too, and think 50 years ago, that people stayed in the same job their whole career. And then the millennials came in the workforce 15, 20 years ago and just stayed for a few years before moving on, and said, “Hey, I’m, you know, I’m done,” or “You’re not treating me how I want to be treated.” And in 2021, we had people that, you know, came in in the morning, went to lunch, and didn’t come back, right?

Susan 09:14
[Laughs]

JoDee 09:14
[Laughs] Like, there’s no… there’s not a lot of patience to be working at places who don’t have this mentality of, you’re important to me, and you’re one of the most important things to me, and I want to do what it takes to keep you.

Derrin 09:30
Yeah, I think all those are right. I think tech companies do this very well, and having that flex environment and really open environment where the staff really dictates how they work. Right? And I think having a focus on an organizational level on the outcomes and the results of the work is what really matters. And I think there’s been a hard look at… I think this new social contract really informs how we look at compensation, and how we look at management, how we look at learning and development and talent management and talent education, right? And really helping educate our employees in various aspects of the of the human… the human nature, if you will. And these are more… more of those soft skills that we’re trying to develop within our employees and our people. Right? But then also looking at culture, I think it’s important that this new social contract that we’re seeing as a trend, it really is priding itself on putting culture at the forefront. And a lot of those companies that Susan mentioned that are doing it well, they really look at people as their most valuable asset in informing that culture. Right? And I think if we value people over profits, I mean, that’s going to be the way of the future.

JoDee 10:52
Maybe if you value people, the profits will come later, too. Right?

Derrin 10:57
Right. That’s exactly right.

Susan 11:00
So Liesel, how about you? What do you think the topic of 2022 is going to be?

Liesel 11:04
I think it’s absolutely essential to be skilling up our teams, our managers, and our policies and procedures to be able to display more empathy in the workplace. Empathy is support for people as they go through these disruptive life events, which are always happening in our workplaces, but, you know, COVID has only accelerated that rate of change. And in the midst of focusing on increased mental wellness, or, you know, realizing that maybe we’ll take Fridays off or things like that, there’s still this sense of when somebody is going through something hard, we don’t know what to do or say. Like, it’s a very human posture of freezing, and we get caught up in our heads, we get caught up in our, you know, sub-optimal response patterns. And, yeah, it’s a pain point that lots of managers are feeling. So I like really helping people through role playing, through self-learning, to be able to more consistently manifest empathy, because the reality is, if our support system is having managers just pass along the email of HR, or the EAP program, and then just, like, hope that the problem goes away, you are not showing a robust culture of care, and especially with all the movement in the workforce, your people are probably looking somewhere else.

Susan 12:24
I love that. The age old adage about “people don’t quit their jobs, they quit their boss.” And truly, if you have a boss that cares about you and shows empathy, you’re going to stay with them, because that just engenders such loyalty. But where you have them just, like, passing along the number, or they’re just going through the motions and you know they don’t care about you or show any compassion, you’re not invested in them. So I think your points are spot on.

Liesel 12:47
Yeah, 100%. In the three and a half years that I’ve done this, if I had, like, a little audio recorder of the people that came up to me after I spoke, I would say two out of every three of them say, “If only my last company had done X, Y or Z, I would have still been there.” So yeah, it’s true.

JoDee 13:07
Liesel, I loved what… your comment about the EAP. You know, I do think that early in my HR career, that’s kind of how we were taught, right? If somebody had a problem, you gave them the phone number to the EAP. Right? We didn’t… we didn’t talk about it, we didn’t coach and we didn’t counsel, we said call this number. And somehow magically, every EAP plan in the country said you get three calls to the EAP. And then you were magically cured after three calls, right? [Laughs]

Susan 13:41
[Laughs]

Liesel 13:42
Well…

JoDee 13:42
There was… there was not any follow up or check in or support from anyone else. I mean, in general. And it was like, you know, the EAP will fix all things for you. So.

Liesel 13:54
And an EAP is can be a great tool. I am so…

JoDee 13:57
Right.

Liesel 13:58
I mean, they are… they are historically underutilized. But the pandemic has shown utilization numbers going up, there are better and better tools. So it’s not a knock on that at all. It’s just the realization that we live most of our lives in teams, and that human touch really matters. And in fact, that’s where our bad habits show up all the time. Like, if you’re a “Buck Up Bobby,” who’s always just focused on productivity, a little bit like what Derrin said, like, that kind of full steam ahead, there’s no chance for whining, like, that’ll come out in the edges or very explicitly in a way that people are going to be like, “You’re kind of a jerk.”

JoDee 14:35
[Laughs]

Derrin 14:36
Yeah, Liesel, why do you think this is not normalized within companies?

Liesel 14:40
Because it hasn’t had a direct through line to the bottom line. Although, I mean, if you look at publications in the Harvard Business Review and in Forbes, like, social science is definitely building the case that it does affect your bottom line of productivity. The other thing is, you know, mentally, we conceive of this as a personality trait that is, like… some people have it, some people don’t. We just shrug our shoulders and kind of chalk it up to a loss instead of conceptualizing it as a capacity that can be developed and that should be developed. And the more we talk about it that way, the more it’s going to come into our MBA programs and into our internal leadership training programs, and it’s going to be seen as a capacity that helps you excel, not as, like, a nice to have, but as a need to have capacity.

JoDee 15:30
Liesel, I always love hearing you say that, too, because I think, you know, my Clifton StrengthsFinder strengths, Empathy is very low for me. Almost at the very bottom. [Laughs] And so you’re always reminding me that empathy is a skill that we can all learn, right? It’s not like we have it or we don’t. It might not be as natural to me as it is to other people, but I can still learn.

Liesel 16:01
Yes. And JoDee, as someone who has gotten to know you professionally, you’re a great learner, so it should give you hope. And actually, the people who really have some of the most glowing reviews after sessions are people who would not define themselves as naturally empathetic, because they go, oh, like, I can start doing these things. I can learn to read body language better, I can learn that this is just a good thing to do for everybody and I just need to eliminate this from my vocabulary, I can drop that, because they tend to be good learners, even if they’re not inherently empathetic by nature.

JoDee 16:38
Yeah.

Derrin 16:39
Yeah, it’s an important point, Liesel. I think, the more consistent we are as individuals, the more that we can start normalizing this approach to be more empathetic towards everyone within your organization. And I’m dealing with this today. I had a quarterly checking in with an employee today, and she shared with us, you know, leadership team, that she has the opportunity to go into another organization and get promoted to another organization that she’s working with. And she… she said that she would turn that down 1,000%, because that other organization doesn’t value her as a person. They aren’t empathetic towards situations at home or in her personal life. And they aren’t empathetic or sensitive to the time that she has outside of work. And so she said, Derrin, if you guys can support me here with with benefits and all these things, then I will stay here 100%, because you guys are very empathetic to everything that’s going on. And she started crying. And I think, Liesel, you’re right. I think that does have a direct line and through point to our bottom line, because, I mean, she’s one of our best workers, and she works for us part-time right now because she feels valued, because she feels seen, and I think if we’re talking about… or go back into that social contract from employees to employers, I think employees are demanding us employers to have more transparency, to have more vulnerability, to have more empathy, to have more flexibility, right? Because they aren’t beholden to this one job or one thing. And so you’re still spot on with this work. And so I just appreciate this conversation.

Liesel 18:28
Beautiful story. I’m glad that you were able to reap the benefits of that relational care that you’ve given, you know, week in and week out. And that comes in, you know, a dozen different interactions that you’ve had that led up to that moment as she talked with a recruiter to make her go, “Well, yeah, the money would be nice, but…”

Susan 18:50
Yeah, that is terrific. Well, thank you. What a wonderful topic. JoDee, what’s your topic for 2022?

JoDee 18:55
My topic is coaching. Offering coaching at all levels. You know, coaching certainly isn’t anything new. It’s been around for a long time, but seems to me like there’s been a renewed buzz about it in the past few years, more requests for it, more need for it. And I think the pandemic even reinforced our need for human connection, as well as for more directed feedback about our performance, too. When I think about coaching, at least before the past few years, I think we saw organizations who had coaches for their top executives, and then they had people who had issues, performance problems, or behavioral problems got coaches, too, right? So, like, what a disconnect between the top of the organization got it and then the people who were struggling got it, but what about all those people in between? And I see a trend for that. I… Once again, I believe that millennials have been a force in this, as they’ve requested it, they’ve gone out in the past and hired coaches on their own. They’ve looked at coaching… at all different types of coaching, right? It could be sales coaching, or I actually met a lady last week, Cheryl Haynes, who her whole coaching practice is built on DEI coaching, right? So we can… we can think about coaching in terms of our career or in some specific areas where we might need coaching. So I’m hoping that this trend really continues hot and heavy into 2022.

Susan 20:44
I definitely think you’re right. And I think that it’s a wonderful retention tool, given where we are in the world and the war on talent. The organization that provides a coach for anybody who’s interested in it at any level in the organization, that’s going to be a real differentiator, I think, from wherever else they could go, because people want to keep growing and learning and managers, I think, are great at doing it. Some are. But to have somebody who’s really skilled in coaching, I think, can really help someone with their career, their confidence, and their competence.

JoDee 21:14
I think, too, Susan, it’s kind of a double whammy, in that not only is it an amazing retention tool, but it’s a development tool as well. Right? So you can have one coach and have two results out of that.

Liesel 21:29
Well, and JoDee, I think that also another presupposition related to coaching was that that was really only for people in industries that were, you know, making a certain amount of money or with a certain level of education. And I think, especially that the pressures on the job market are showing that even entry level jobs or lower wage jobs, you know, a mark of differentiation is, is this going to be a role where I feel like I am being invested in, whether I choose to stay here or move to my next position? So are you seeing that as a trend at all in, like, the industries that are interested in bringing coaches on, that it’s more, like, entry level firms that are saying, you know, we want this, too?

JoDee 22:13
Yeah, I think it’s coming in on all shapes and sizes, too, right? And I think you’re right about it could be for new hires, or for sales teams, or around diversity. I also think companies can think differently about coaching and that our listeners might be thinking, like, “Oh, that’s too expensive, I can’t afford it.” Right? Well, what about training some of your people internally to be coaches, or doing group coaching, or even having peer coaching, right? Or you could even have less experienced people coaching more experienced people on topics like technology or whatever, as well, too. So it doesn’t always have to be going outside and hiring an expensive coach.

Derrin 23:01
Yeah, in where I sit in my world, Liesel, is that, I mean, this… this is a trend. And I’m in the nonprofit sector, and the value of coaching, especially for executive leaders and professionals within this field, it’s so valuable, because sometimes as leaders, especially in the nonprofit sector, we feel like we’re on an island. And it’s such a dog eat dog sector and culture in the funding space that when we have good coaches to really help coach us through what we don’t know, it really adds value to any organization. And what I found is that the more that… that we coach our team, the more aourteam coaches others, the more those others coach others, right? And it’s just something that can really spread and have a ripple effect, a positive ripple effect, that will really influence change within your organizations. And for us, I mean, speaking for ProAct, I mean, we’ve… so we have a really good culture of coaching and it’s really been operationalized within our organization, really, and it helps us really promote and pride ourselves of self-accountability. And they’re really holding each other accountable for our… not only our work, but for things that are happening in our lives. Right? And if we didn’t have have a good coach on our team to help us do that, then we would still be shying away from difficult conversations. We’d be shying away from things that can really help us improve and grow, and we wouldn’t have a team and individuals that really care about learning and growing and wanting to be held accountable. Which, it sounds weird, because… because accountability is hard. But that’s the value of coaching and really promoting and spreading that… that positive view or perspective about coaching and holding each other accountable. So… so I’m right with you, JoDee and Liesel, on where this is going to look like for the next year or two.

JoDee 25:03
Yeah.

Derrin 25:04
And beyond.

Susan 25:06
I’m going to share with you what I think the big trend for 2022 is, and I think it’s going to be succession planning. I think the pandemic taught all of us that people who we thought were going to be with us for the long term aren’t necessarily going to be. I think CNBC did a poll in July of 2021 that said 55% of our employees are thinking about making a career move, so… and it’s very possible that you as the employer are thinking some of that percentage of people are going to be next on deck for some of your key roles. So I think succession planning is really going to be what companies are focusing on. There was a… some research done by ATD in 2019 that said that only 35% of organizations have a formalized succession planning program. I know a lot of organizations out there say, “Well, we know we know who’s next when someone retires, we’ve got our ideas,” but they haven’t really gone through any type of a formal, intentional process, and then when the time comes, everybody scrambles. Harvard Business Review said that the direct cost of replacing a failed executive is 10 times his or her salary.

JoDee 26:13
Wow.

Susan 26:14
If we really spend time thinking, we’re going to put together a solid succession planning process, we’re going to figure out where our key roles are, who are they, and then who’s the potential talent inside the organization that we can skill up, get them ready, take some time and develop them. So when those key roles do come vacant, because they will, either from, you know, retirement, or from people deciding to vote with their feet and leaving you. You want to make sure you’ve got a bench that’s ready or ready soon to fulfill those roles. If not, then you’re going to be scrambling and going out and hiring.

JoDee 26:50
Yeah, I like that, too. And, Susan, I think not only are, you know, some of those people we thought were going to be there, because they’ve resigned, but you know, we also saw a lot of early retirements of people who left or people – to fulfill my trend of coaching at all levels, we’ve needed more coaching, so these people who have said, “Hey, I can go live in the mountains or on the beach, and I’ll coach people from there. I don’t need to, you know, drive downtown every day, work eight to five,” people are just thinking differently about what work means to them. And I agree there’s a greater need than ever for succession planning.

Derrin 27:38
So this is an area that I don’t know a lot about. I’m founder of our organization. And we’ve been around for 11 years, so I’m like, “Oh, well, like should we be considering this?” So what are you all seeing? Like, how does this work in practice? Because I’ve read – and I haven’t read much [laughs] about planning for your next succession is really, like, this has to be beyond a PowerPoint that you present to the board every year.

Susan 28:08
And you know, Derrin, I think with 11 employees, I definitely would have a succession plan for your role, for if you have, like, a chief fundraiser or developer, that’s a really critical role that… because I would think it takes really great connections and someone who understands your mission. So I would figure out first, what are the two or three most critical roles that if we didn’t have someone in the seat, it could put us out of business? So figure out those first. And then secondly, what are the skills and competencies needed in those roles? Then I would say, look around the rest of the organization, are there people here that we ought to be developing and training so when the time comes – and we never know… we know not the hour nor the day, right? Do we have somebody who has got some fundamentals and maybe they’re still on the development path but could we get them there, could be accelerated if we needed to? And sometimes you’re going to say, we have a chief technology officer that is absolutely critical to our business, and there’s nobody here who would have an interest, aspiration for that job. Then you want to be thinking, what’s our external recruiting strategy? If we have to pull the trigger really quick, what are we going to do? Because if you’re in the heat of the moment, when things are awry, if you haven’t done any pre-thinking, you scramble, and sometimes you do desperate hiring. And that’s what I don’t want any organization to do. And I would say in 2022. there’s a lot of desperate hiring going on, because just as JoDee said, with the pandemic, there’s a lot of people who have not come back into the workforce. Baby Boomers, the rate of retirements for Baby Boomers has doubled since the beginning of 2020. So Baby Boomers are deciding, first of all, the stock portfolios have done very well for a lot of people. And secondly, they’re like, “Why do I want to keep working when I don’t have to?” Because it’s been a very sobering time in people’s lives.

Liesel 29:53
Susan, I appreciate hearing you kind of flesh that out, because at first glance, something like succession planning can sound a little bit dry and abstract. But when you see how it really flows into, “hey, we want to be internally developing our people, because it relates to succession planning,” or “we want to think about succession planning, because we’re reckoning with disruptive life events and we know how they can change things,” you see just the the overflow into these other trends and how it really has been bubbling up and is more top of mind than ever.

Susan 30:27
Thank you. I think you’re exactly right. I love that we’ve had this discussion about what the four of us see as hot trends. I’m sure there’s probably more out there, but it’s really been enlightening for me, and I really appreciate the discussion.

JoDee 30:39
Yeah, thanks so much for joining us.

Derrin 30:42
Yeah, no problem. Thank you all for having Liesel and me. Thank you.

Liesel 30:47
Glad to be with you.

Susan 30:48
Hope you both come back again.

Liesel 30:50
I hope that our, you know, 2023, you know, workplace trend discussion is like, “How are we dealing with all of the abundance?”

JoDee 30:58
Right. [laughs]

Liesel 30:59
Yeah. “Our people are so well balanced. How do we keep them that way?” But for 2022, I think these are a little bit closer to the reality.

JoDee 31:08
Yeah.

Susan 31:09
That’s great. Thank you.

Susan 31:11
JoDee, that was so fun, wasn’t it?

JoDee 31:14
It was. I love it. I love the topic and I love getting lots of different opinions on each of our ideas. So.

Susan 31:22
I loved Liesel’s kind of wrap-up about succession planning and all the topics, how integrated they really are. So what we think is hot in 2022, I think it’s all about the focus on employees and how do we care for them? How do we coach and develop them? How do we retain them? How do we build them, prepare them for the… you know, the next senior role? I really liked it.

JoDee 31:44
Yeah. And we’d love to have some input from our listeners on how they like this format, too. Maybe we can do some more like this.

Susan 31:53
So please do contact us at @JoyPowered on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram.

JoDee 32:00
Twitter.

Susan 32:01
Sure.

JoDee 32:03
Susan, our listener question this week comes from a listener who completed one of our previous episode’s show evaluation to get SHRM credit. Here’s what they asked. “I’d love to hear your thoughts about how to build trust with employees who are naturally distrustful and skeptical.”

Susan 32:25
I’ve met a few. [Laughs] They’re out there. Right?

JoDee 32:28
So have I.

Susan 32:29
Yeah, well, you know, my number one Strength Finders strength is Woo, Winning Others Over one person at a time. And I personally take it on as a challenge. If there’s somebody that is not naturally trustful, or they’re skeptical, I mean, I’m going to go after it and try to build that relationship and build that trust. I do think it starts with showing respect. I think it’s really important the person knows that you care enough about them that you really do want to build a strong relationship with them. I think it was Stephen Covey who said, you know, “you need to listen to understand, not to respond.” And I think you do, I think you have to use that really strong listening skill and hear that individual, make sure they know, you know, you value their voice. I think sincerity and genuineness just goes a long way. JoDee, how about you? I’m sure you’ve dealt with people who are skeptical, too.

JoDee 33:21
You know, well, one of my Clifton StrengthsFinder Top Five is Positivity, so it’s difficult for me sometimes to relate to people who are distressful and skeptical, so I’m sometimes banging my head against the wall…

Susan 33:37
[Laughs]

JoDee 33:37
…with my Positivity to make it happen. But I also love the Stephen Covey comment about listening, right? Sometimes I think I try too hard to… to talk and convince them otherwise, and maybe can spend more time listening to what their concerns are about, as well, too.

Susan 33:56
Yeah. I would also mention to listeners that we did another podcast back in… that actually launched February 1 of 2020, that was entitled “Difficult People and Negative Attitudes.” We do have some suggestions in there and some research that we were able to find that I think really helps with this topic, so I encourage you to go back and take a listen.

Susan 34:16
Alright, JoDee, it’s time for in the news. Emilie Shumway wrote an article on HRdive.com dated November 16, 2021, about a November 2021 Korn Ferry survey of 690 professionals, of which 59% said workers are more rude today than they ever were before the pandemic. Can you imagine? Seven in 10 workers say it’s easier to be rude in a remote work environment by interrupting others on phone calls, not returning phone calls, and everything else related. In that same study, it said that four out of five workers find it hard to concentrate after a colleague has been rude to them. I know it does for me. [Laughs] Emilie’s…

JoDee 35:01
[Laughs]

Susan 35:01
Not that people are rude to me very often, but when they are it does rattle you. Emilie’s article entitled “Remote Rudeness: Workers Less Civil Now, Study Says” suggests encouraging remote workers to take breaks and consider tapping into mindfulness exercise to relieve stress and avoid rude behaviors. I think people sometimes don’t realize how they’re being perceived. So it’s important for us as business leaders and HR professionals to remind staff of the need for civility, and work hard at modeling it ourselves.

JoDee 35:31
Yeah, love it.

Susan 35:33
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Susan 36:01
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JoDee 36:09
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Susan 36:38
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