Click here for this episode’s show notes.

This transcript was created using an automated transcription service and may contain errors.

Susan 00:02
I know that when people feel like they’re respected, valued, seen, and heard, that they’re going to be more likely to open up with you, and you want to get to know the real them.

Susan 00:13
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help HR and business leaders embrace joy in the workplace. I’m Susan White, owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, an HR consulting practice. Joining me is my co-host and very good friend, JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, a large scale HR firm that I’m an executive collaborator with.

Susan 00:34
We devoted a JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast episode to interviewing that was entitled “Interview Hacking” back in September of 2018 where we talked about interviewing as a candidate and also as an employer. In that episode, we talk about different interviewing formats, about being careful to ask legal questions, and the importance of remembering the candidates are evaluating us as much as we are evaluating them during the entire candidate experience. So in this episode, we’re going a little different direction. We want to focus on interviewing best practices that we’ve gathered from our personal experience with over 70 years of combined hiring experience. I know, JoDee, doesn’t it make you choke? Yeah, I didn’t give the exact number, but it’s over 70 years of combined hiring experience in large, medium, and small organizations. We both have career coached hundreds of job candidates, which I think has given us insights into the candidate experience. And to go broader than just our own headspace on this topic, we conducted an informal survey with our network to learn what other experts believe are some of the best interviewing questions that we can be asking job candidates to figure out if they are the right person for the job.

Susan 01:53
So let’s start out by talking about an article in HRaddict.com that was posted October 12, 2023 entitled “10 Best Interviewing Techniques for Employers,” written by Mike Dalley. JoDee, I looked at all of these, and I really do think these are good things for us all to keep in mind. Whether you’re a business leader listening today or an HR professional, let’s think about how we are conducting our interviews. So why don’t we go back and forth and talk about each one of these? Do you want to kick it off for us?

JoDee 02:26
Sure. So number one is to listen actively. Staying present, both physically, emotionally, and mentally in the moment, which isn’t always easy to do. You know, sometimes you think early on, “oh, I’m not sure this is the right person,” and it’s easy to check out a bit.

Susan 02:49
It is. Or you’ve got other appointments going on that day, or this is, like, the 12th person you’ve interviewed. Yeah. But you owe it to yourself, to your organization, and that individual, I think, to stay present, and it’s exhausting. Yeah. Excellent way to start us out. The second thing that Dalley mentions is make sure you’re asking open-ended questions. I do think we in HR are good at this. We do know that we want the person to open up and we’re not there to tell, we’re there to learn and to understand. We’re going to give you some examples of good open-ended questions before this episode is over.

JoDee 03:23
Number three is to be consistent. And I have to admit, I struggle with this one. I understand the importance of it, that we ask the same questions to every candidate for the same job, and that’s about being fair and equitable and, you know, just consistent throughout the process. The way that I do it best is to prepare an interview script. Right? Which helps to ensure that fairness and reduce bias amongst candidates. You know, you might even think about considering interviewing at the same time each day, so you bring energy to each candidate, because I’ve had a lot of those days where you mentioned, like you’re on your 12th candidate of the day, and that’s really hard to bring that same…

Susan 04:19
That’s so true, yeah. Number four, it’s important in an interview to build rapport, and I know that when people feel like they’re respected, valued, seen, and heard, that they’re going to be more likely to open up with you. And you want to get to know the real them, so you want to use good interview, you know, etiquette. Be on time. Stay on time. Let the person know how much time you have. You should engage in some small talk. You have to be careful to make sure it doesn’t go down a path of you learning something about them that you shouldn’t know, but you should, you know, you should be able to get a good conversation started. Perhaps you talk about the weather. Maybe talk about the sporting event in your locale. Whatever. I do think you want to make sure that good etiquette and good rapport building is to let them know how the interview is going to run, what kind of questions you’re going to ask, that there’s going to be time for them to ask you questions, before this interview is over I’m going to tell you what our next steps are. I just think it’s important you treat them with respect, and I guess the final point is, give them some type of refreshment. You know, offer them water or coffee or something so they have time, if their mouth gets dry, they’re probably nervous, that they can take a sip, they can pause, they can breathe for a nanosecond. So I would really focus number four, on building good rapport.

JoDee 05:38
Number five is to conclude effectively. Thanking them for their time. You know, they’ve taken time, maybe, to drive there, to be on Zoom with you, however that might work. And you know, a lot of times interview candidates pour out their hopes and dreams, being respectful and thankful for their time even, you know, if you think they might be the right fit for the role or not. I’d also encourage them to ask questions throughout the process, or again, if you’ve set the tone that they’ll have time at the end, that can be okay as well, and always let them know when you will get back to them. You know, is it going to be a day or a week or three months, right? At least set an expectation for them when you will be in touch and how you’ll be in touch, if you call them, email them, text them. I don’t think too many people mail letters anymore, like we used to. Whatever works. And please respond to every single candidate one way or another.

Susan 06:58
Yeah. And I think it hurts all of our reps as business leaders, as HR professionals when companies don’t get back to candidates, yeah, it just it crushes me. So please, if you’re listening, don’t do that. Be sure you get back to everybody. Yeah, good. Well, Dalley also mentions the number six is that follow the 70/30 rule. And so remember how we said you need to ask open-ended questions, get them talking? Well, 70% of the time that candidate should be the one talking, 30% of the time should be you, the interviewer. Now there’s going to be times where you want some silence in that room, because you want them to get a chance to truly open up. You don’t, as soon as they finish speaking, you don’t want to come back at them with that next question, because if you allow a little time and space, they may give you more than what they initially thought to give you, and that could really help you determine, are they the right fit for the job or not. So don’t rush to that next question. Take some time, space. Don’t rush through it.

JoDee 07:57
Number seven, know the basics of human psychology. That might sound pretty profound. It really is simple things. You know, being aware of how bias can impact our decision making, and we all have bias. We all have it. We have it in different ways, with different people, with different populations of people, so being cognitive and aware of that. And consider the non-verbal cues. That might be of yourself, or even watching their non-verbal cues, right? Are you sitting up? Are you showing interest in their response? Are they showing body language and understand what you’re saying and what you’re asking, as well, too? Look for that emotional intelligence. And again, I think that can be our own intelligence, but also of the candidate as well, and remember that they likely — and maybe sometimes, I think, interviewers, if you don’t do it very often, can be more stressed or anxious than the candidate — but you know, it can certainly be difficult for candidates who might be under stress or anxious about going through the process or being rejected, or maybe they recently lost their role, which is why they’re looking and certainly, you know, motivated to find something new, or motivated by lots of different reasons, so be cognizant of all of that as well, too.

Susan 09:45
Yeah. And number eight, manage that interview time effectively. Remember as the interviewer, you are in control, and use that time wisely. Stick to the allocated time, recognizing if something would come up that you really needed to stop and address then, then you would take that time. But most of the time, if it’s 45 minutes has been dedicated for this interview, you don’t want to stop after five or 10, because that person is going to think I’m not interested. Or you don’t have to elongate it. Don’t keep them longer than what you had committed to. Sometimes you do have to pull candidates out of rabbit holes that they’ve gone down in a response to a question that you’ve asked. And when that happens, you do need to say, “Oh, gosh, I find that very interesting, but I do need to get us back. We only have 15 more minutes. I’ve got a few more questions for you.” You do need to stay in control, and you do need to follow the script of the interviewing questions that you need to get asked.

JoDee 10:38
And probe into their responses, right? If you hear vague, theoretical, or incomplete answers, go deeper with them. Ask them, “Tell me more,” you know. “What happened? What was the follow up on that?” We love behavioral-based interview questions, things like “Give us a specific example of a time when you faced…” X, Y, Z, you faced, you know, a difficult conversation, you faced whatever it might be. Ask, “What was the specific situation? What did you specifically do? What was the outcome?” You know, keep asking about it, and that might mean that you keep having to drill down, depending on how they answer that, so that you can assess, do they have the competencies to do the kind of work you need them to do?

Susan 11:39
Yeah, absolutely. And Dalley, in his article, made number 10 seek those specific examples. And as a reminder to many of you that are listening, the STAR approach is still the best way to get to a behavioral interviewing response, and that is, explain the S is the Situation, the T is what was the Task that needed to be completed, A, what specific Action did you take, and R, what were the Results? So easy way to remember how to structure a behavioral interviewing question. Okay, those were the 10 tips. Now what we want to do is talk about the results from our informal survey, about what are some of the best interviewing questions that you like to ask that really yields good decisions for you in your selection process. So let’s start. I’m going to go with our first question, and I am not naming the people that were kind enough to respond, although they all told me who they were. They are, trust me, they are what I think are first-class, top-notch interviewers with organizations that have been hiring high quality people for a long time. So the first one was “Describe a workplace culture in which you thrived. What values were emphasized there that you really connected with?” I think this is a really helpful question if you’re trying to figure out if a person is a good fit for your culture. Do they value the things the organization values? Will they find their home? Will they be really, truly engaged about your organization’s mission? So the particular person who responded to us with that question said they like to see what the candidate leads with, as that might be the most apt way to know what their passion is, and you can figure out if there’s a match to your, your company.

JoDee 13:29
Another interview question we had was, “What is something your supervisor or boss has complimented you on? What is something you are working to improve?” and the why on that is it’s an easier way to get people to respond to their strengths and realize an area that they are good at, right? So I think a better question than just saying, “What are your strengths?” but what other people compliment you on. It seems that the candidate is able to respond to this easier, especially those that find it difficult to talk about themselves or maybe to brag about themselves. You know, we can all be our own worst critic.

Susan 14:15
So true.

JoDee 14:17
When they think about it through this lens, it helps them to see what others see in them. And on the second part, “What is something you are working to improve?” it’s sort of another way of asking gently about their weakness, but then a way that shows that they have identified that area and have made an attempt to improve.

Susan 14:42
Number three question we got is, “If money were no object and nobody could say no, what would you do with your career?” That, once again, I think it’s going to help you determine is your place of employment really where that person is going to fit in and be engaged and be happy?

JoDee 14:59
Number four, I think this is my favorite question that we got from the survey, that I have never asked this before, but I sure will going forward. They said, “What do you see as a gap between your skills and this job, and how would you close it?” I just think that is really powerful way of saying, you know, I think we’re all always as interviewers trying to figure that out.

Susan 15:33
True.

JoDee 15:33
Why not just ask them what they see as the gap? So, I love that.

Susan 15:39
Our fifth question came from an expert who said they try very hard to find something real-world happening in this particular organization, with this particular role, to see how the person would respond real-time. So here’s an example. “We are going through talent reviews right now, and our managers are struggling to understand what high potential means. How would you help them understand what that means?” or “What do you do with the talent review outcomes in your organization today? How would you recommend we do that?” So it’s really trying to get them to think through a real world issue that really helps you understand, are they going to be a fit?

JoDee 16:19
So number six, “What gives you energy and what takes away energy in your work?” I think that’s powerful, too. And you know, Susan and I are both big fans of CliftonStrengths®, which, it’s likely that what gives them energy is their strengths, and what takes away energy are things that are not their strengths or that they get frustrated in doing. So I think that’s powerful to help you think about those and, you know, are the things that take away energy from them things that are a big piece of the job? So.

Susan 17:02
Right. Number seven kind of goes back to what has your boss said to you before. Different way of phrasing it. “What has been the most constructive criticism you have received? In other words, what has someone told you about yourself that you’ve really taken to heart and either worked on to improve or enhance?”

JoDee 17:20
Next question was, “Tell me about the onboarding process at your most recent position. What works well for you and what could have been done differently?” It’s kind of a more specific spin on the question you asked earlier about specific challenges or specific issues.

Susan 17:41
And the next question we received was “Tell me about a specific mistake that you have made and what happened as a result of it.” Ouch. That would be a little hard for me to answer, but I would. Yeah.

JoDee 17:52
Yeah.

Susan 17:53
The interviewer likes to see when an applicant is willing to admit that, they admit that they do make mistakes, that they own the mistake, and that they hopefully handled the follow up, the communications, they worked to repair that situation and created a process that wouldn’t happen again.

JoDee 18:09
Here’s an interesting one I like, too. “What are some misperceptions about you? What do people think about you, but you know isn’t true?” I think this — the interesting thing about that is, you may be surprised what people reveal. It is much easier for them to be forthcoming with this line of questioning than asking them about weaknesses or development areas. So.

Susan 18:38
Ever since I got that question, I have been thinking about it. Yeah, I find it — I think it’s a really good question, really kind of breaks, breaks things open. And then the final question, which is my favorite, that I always include, is, “What haven’t I asked you about that you want me to know?” And there’s been times where people told me something that actually absolutely convinced me we gotta hire this person, or it has convinced me that this is not the person for us. So I love it. What, what should I know about you that you haven’t I haven’t asked about? So JoDee, I’ve gotta ask, as we always ask guests, I’m gonna ask you, what do you find joyful in interviewing?

JoDee 19:15
You know, I love to hear what people tell me. And I think, you know, I’ve interviewed a lot of people in many, many years, and I think it’s fascinating what people share. I’m just, I’m a curious person about people and what they do and what they want to do, and so I love just learning more about people in general, and again, whether I think there’ll be a fit or not, I think it’s interesting to hear what people have to say in the interview process.

Susan 19:55
I am so with you. I never tire of meeting new people. I never tire of understanding what makes them tick, how they got to where they are, what it is they want to do. Now, honestly, I do get tired talking about the job that we have, or talking about the benefits or, you know, I’d much rather listen. That 70/30, I’d like it to be about 95 of them, 5% me, because I find that part very fascinating, but I know that it’s just as important they’re evaluating us, and so I need to bring my A game and take my 30% of the conversation seriously. I just don’t get as much energy from it as I do from listening.

JoDee 20:33
Yeah, agree. So speaking of questions, we have a very interesting listener question today. Someone wrote, “How can I get along with people in the workplace who I don’t like or who don’t like me?”

Susan 20:51
Oh my gosh, I really do like this question, probably because I can relate to it so well. I cannot imagine, JoDee, that you probably can relate to this like I can, because I can’t imagine you not liking someone, nor anybody not liking you. I can’t.

JoDee 21:07
I’m sure there’s people right now who are saying like, “Me, me, me!”

Susan 21:12
I, I put money on that not — that’s not the case. Anyways, I look back on my career, I know that there have always been people that I was not their cup of tea. It could have been my “get the job done at all costs” attitude which may have caused me to be viewed as uncaring to personal needs, or my really high expectations of myself and others which some felt were unrealistic, or my sometimes too positive style that felt disingenuous or naive to others. So I’ve got a lot of reasons out there people may not like me in the world of work, but on the other side of this question, there have been very few people that I haven’t liked in the places that I have worked. From early on, if I had a chance to get to know someone, I almost always find something about them that I like, even if they’ve got things that I don’t particularly care for, there’s something in there that I like. Now, even people who were not fans of mine, I still found things in them I admired. So my suggestions for this listener, for those you don’t like and for those who don’t like you, my advice is really the same. First of all, challenge yourself to spend time with that person and get to know them at the human level. What made, what made them the way they are? I’m hoping you’re going to find something in there to appreciate, if not like, and the same is true for them. I’m hoping by spending more time with you, that they can find something to relate to you on and maybe even begin to like you. My second suggestion is consider being even more transparent by having a relationship reset conversation when it’s necessary. That might sound something like, “I know we got off on the wrong foot with each other. I’d love to do a start over.” And there are times where conflict is there, and you know, you need to work with somebody, put it on the table, see if you can’t do a restart, they may turn you down, but I’m going to try. And then I guess my third piece of advice, if those two things don’t work for you, is that accept that you may never like this person, or they may never like you, but as they’re in your work sphere, you make the mental commitment to respect the work that they do, be kind in your interactions, but recognize they aren’t going to, to look to you for emotional support or enjoyment, and you’re not going to be looking for them for that either. And then get back to work.

JoDee 23:40
Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I think that is great advice for you. That, the first one you said about challenging yourself to spend time with that person, I, in, early in my career, specifically my first nine years as an auditor, it seemed like we were always switching offices. We would get, you know, our, the partner in the firm, or who, somebody who was in charge of seating, as people would come and go, we were always moving around. And I can remember several times during that period that I thought, “I hope I don’t have to share an office or share a cubicle with this person,” and inevitably I would, I’d get put with them. By the time we were in that same office, I had more respect and liked that person better than ever. I think it was kind of being forced to get along with them, right, that we were going to be sharing an office, and I don’t know that I was, if I was intentional about saying I’m going to look for something I like in you, or I know I didn’t, I wouldn’t have ever at that point said “I want to understand your strengths,” or something like that. But I, it just, I always came out of the deal, really enjoying the person that I was kind of forced to work with and get to know. And I think that’s good for us too.

Susan 25:21
I do.

JoDee 25:22
Even though it wasn’t my choice, per se, I made it work. So.

Susan 25:28
I can remember a couple of long road trips I had to go on with a couple of people. I went on a lot of road trips. And a couple of these people I just didn’t care for at all. I thought, “I can’t believe I’m going to be in a car for,” let’s just say, “four hours there and four hours back,” or whatever.

JoDee 25:42
Yeah.

Susan 25:42
Both times, I can remember, at the end of the trip, I just liked, I liked whatever it was in there that we could, we related to each other on and it was really hard saying goodbye. And I remember thinking, wow, that’s because I’ve spent real quality time with that person. So I, listener, I hope it works for you.

JoDee 25:57
Me too. Me too.

Susan 26:00
So it’s time for in the news, JoDee. The Office of Disability Employment Policy issued a news brief on October 3, 2024 introducing JAN’s — and our listeners will recall that’s the US. Job Accommodation Network — new “Situations and Solutions” Accommodations Finder. This wonderful new tool enables all of us, employers, HR professionals, caregivers, people with disabilities, to search through real-life examples of job accommodations that is going to enable people with disabilities to perform work and keep jobs with — in most cases — simple, inexpensive adjustments or tools. This is a free database where you can search by disability, by limitation, or occupation to get job accommodation guidance to meet the need. We will include a link to this news brief as well as a link to the finder in our show notes. Anything we can do to make employing more people with disabilities, the better for our organizations, for our people, and for the world.

JoDee 27:05
Well, thanks for tuning in today and make it a JoyPowered® day.

Susan 27:10
Thank you.

If you liked the show, please tell a few friends about us and let us know what you thought by leaving us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening right now. Become a JoyPowered® member to get extras like early access to episodes, video versions of the episodes, bonus episodes, and even more. Learn more at patreon.com/joypowered. You spell Patreon, P, A, T, R, E, O, N, so it’s patreon.com/joypowered. You can find more information on our podcast, books, blogs, and more at getjoypowered.com. We’re @JoyPowered on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, and you can email us via joypowered@gmail.com. Make it a JoyPowered® day.