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Susan White (00:02)
I would just say that the metrics that you focus on, understand that we’re gonna focus on this for the next year or the next two quarters. It’s not forever.

JoDee Curtis (00:15)
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help people leaders embrace joy and the workplace. I’m JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, an HR consulting and talent development firm. And with me is my co-host and dear friend Susan White, the owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, also an HR consulting firm. Susan is also a senior executive collaborator for Purple Ink.

Our topic today is listener questions. Thanks to so many of our listeners for submitting topic ideas to us and also for sending us questions to respond to. Sometimes we get a little backlogged, so we thought we would just create a whole episode on answering some of your questions.

And also just a reminder to keep sending us topics and questions to joypowered at gmail.com. And by the way, we do have some podcasts on many of these topics, so we didn’t reference them all. Some are bonus episodes too, so if you are interested in having access to our bonus episodes, you can check out our Patreon page at Patreon–that’s P-A-T-R-E-O-N–dot com slash JoyPowered. So here we go. Susan, I’ll take the first question.

Our listener says, “I’d like to hear more about the case for a four-day work week. How is this a positive, and how can I make a business case for it?”

Well, I think I’ve shared before about a similar question on this topic that I made a business case once at an organization I worked for, and thought it was such a wonderful idea, and then nobody signed up to do it except for me. So, you know, it doesn’t work for everyone. But Susan, you and I both have spent times in our career working four days a week. And I just think it can for some people–you can–I felt like for me when I was working four days a week, I was extremely effective, and I didn’t do personal things at work because I saved them for my day off and I had my plumbers and my contractors come on those days and it just worked really great for me.

Of course, the important thing is you have to have coverage for your business, right? Can you say you’re closed on Fridays or can some people can people different days four days a week? So lots of different cases to be made both ways, I think, but I do see it sort of coming back as a trend again some.

Susan White (03:29)
Yeah, I would just pipe in to say that I think if I was trying to sell the business case and the rationale for doing it, I would start with flexibility. There’s so many studies out there that the workforce in 2026 is hungry for flexibility. They want to be able to choose when and where they work.

Now, we know that that’s impossible in all situations. And in fact, it can be challenging for employees to figure out where do we offer flexibility? If you can have a reduced work week as one of your options, studies will prove that that is going to be a differentiator, I think, for you as an employer of choice.

So, it’s 2026. When you have talent that you know has the requisite skills and capabilities you need, you don’t want to lose them to somebody else who’s going to offer that flexibility. So I’d start with that.

JoDee Curtis (04:16)
Right.

Susan White (04:17)
There’s a lot of research out there I think that can help build that business case. And then I’d want to also survey my current employees. I would ask what’s important to them and use that data to help sell your drive for flexibility.

JoDee Curtis (04:29)
Right. Right. Love it.

Susan White (04:32)
Alright, well, JoDee, I’m gonna take the second question. It’s about an employment law issue, and let me just say, neither JoDee nor I are attorneys. So whenever we talk about regulations or laws, I–please always validate your thinking against what your employee, your labor law attorney thinks.

But we are gonna talk about ADEA, because that question comes up. People will often say, “So remind me, what is that, ADEA?”

Well, ADEA, A-D-E-A, stands for Age Discrimination in Employment Act. This was passed back in 1967. So most of our listeners may not have been alive during that time, but in 1967, this was a landmark piece of legislation that still guides us today. It is a US federal law that prohibits employment discrimination against individuals who are age 40 or older. JoDee, that sounds like very young to me, but…

JoDee Curtis (05:26)
Me too.

Susan White (05:26)
Forty, yeah. Someone could be discriminated against if they’re over the age of 40. It’s possible that an employer will think, you know what, I want to invest in somebody right out of out of high school or right out of college, or I want somebody–I heard the expression a lot, “with a longer runway,” than somebody who’s already in their forties. All of that is a bias toward let’s get young and younger people in the workplace. So ADEA is there, it exists to protect workers as they do age and become more seasoned in their careers.

What it does specifically, it protects discrimination in hiring and recruiting, in promotions, in compensation, in benefits, training opportunities, layoffs, reductions in force, or terminations in employment. And also it does protect individuals from harassment because of their age if it’s over 40.

You’ll often see ADEA referenced in employee handbooks, so if you’re reviewing your employee handbook this year, take a look, make sure you’ve got it in there. Especially when you’re talking about reductions in planning or any type of contrary action you may be taking with employees, you want to make sure that you acknowledging that you’re not going to discriminate based on any factor, including age.

So think of–look at your hiring practices, your job advertisements. We know really large companies got into a lot of trouble within the last decade for using some of their Facebook analytics to target people of certain race, gender, age. So you want to make sure there’s nothing happening with your AI or any other systemic selection process you have that could weed out people over the age of 40.

So when an employee is age 40 or older and they sign severance agreements, many of you do have to work through reductions in force over time, you’ll notice that most attorneys will put in there a waiver of ADEA claims because of special requirements under the Older Workers Protection Benefit–I’m sorry, the Older Workers Benefit Protection Act, which includes reviewing and revocation periods. So people over the age of forty also have that second protection from the OWBPA.

So in times of layoffs, you probably know that you if someone’s over the age of forty, they generally have longer to review that separation agreement, and they also have the opportunity to take a look at everybody else in that cohort that’s being laid off and knowing their ages. We don’t reveal the names of the individuals who are being laid off, but we do put the job title and the age of the individuals so that if you are an older worker, you can get a sense or feel if perhaps they are targeting older employees.

So anyway, age, they always say age is just a number. Well, when it comes to ADEA, age 40 is very important.

JoDee Curtis (08:17)
Yeah. It is crazy to me that that law passed in 1967. I just can’t believe it’s been around that long. But…

Susan White (08:28)
Almost 60 years, yeah.

JoDee Curtis (08:30)
Yeah.

Okay, question number three. “Tell me more about ACA eligibility and the generic rules.”

Well, the ACA was passed, the Affordable Care Act was passed in 2010, and it requires certain employers to offer health insurance coverage to eligible employees, or they can face penalties if they don’t. And the key concept is whether an employer is an applicable large employer. So an employer is generally considered to be this ALA if they average 50 or more full-time employees during the prior calendar year.

An interesting note about it too is that under ACA, a full-time employee is someone who works an average of 30 hours or more per week or works 130 hours or more in a month. And sometimes that’s a surprise to employers, or they’re not ready for that. They’re thinking a full-time employee works 40 hours every single week, but it’s not just a traditional 40-hour work week. So, you have to be careful about that one.

Susan White (09:56)
Yeah, thank you.

Question number four that we would like to talk about is someone wrote in and said, “I’d love to learn more about how we can leverage AI as remote HR employees in order to carve out more time for engagement and inclusivity on those remote teams.” So, I love this question. You know, we’re–JoDee and I have spent a lot of time talking about AI. What does it mean? What’s the good? What’s the bad? What’s the risks?

And I think trying to figure out how do you apply it today… I mean, we want to be using it, but we want to be understanding how we can get gains from it and do it in a way that we as HR professionals really can free ourselves up to spend time doing just the thing that this listener talked about, about engaging with our clients and helping them think strategically about the future.

So, we think it’s an important concept to all of us to get really comfortable with, whether or not you are remote. I really–both of us encourage HR professionals to think of AI as a time reallocation tool rather than simply a productivity tool. You know, let’s let AI handle those transactions, the routine drafting, the summarizing, reporting tasks.

How many times are you in a meeting and you jot down notes? You know what, let’s use AI. We can always go back and clean up those notes, but let’s stay present in the moment. You know, what can we do that’s going to help us be more fully engaged in whatever activity that we’re doing? And I think AI is just a terrific tool to do that.

So, some of the things that I know many of our listeners are already doing with AI, certainly they’re probably looking at technology platforms and things with their senior leadership about how to things — make things more self-service and more efficient in the large technology platforms, but simple things that we can be doing: drafting your emails and your communications. You know, taking what you’ve got, what are your thoughts, your ideas, your needs, and letting AI give you a draft, right? Certainly, you want to edit it, make sure it’s not slop, that it doesn’t reflect what you want to say.

Summarize meetings, as I mentioned, take notes, summarize the meetings. Create onboarding materials perhaps for your new hires. You know, we all get a lot of HR questions, and they’re asked to us in many different ways by many different people. We always try to use that Disney approach that remember that this guest, this is the first time they’ve asked that question. Well, you know what? Maybe our AI can be tracking those questions we’re getting, come up with frequently asked questions, and then making them easily available through chatbot responses or through maybe even a just a pointing that to where those frequently asked questions are on our websites.

Drafting policies and job descriptions and job postings. I’ve used those a lot. I’ve used AI a lot on those. They usually do a better job than I could have done, right? And so, I think it’s–many of you are doing that just daily now. Compiling survey results, looking for themes in surveys that you do, understanding what pain points exist, maybe through your exit interviews. Let’s put all the data in there and see what are the recurring issues that we need to address. Creating reports, presentations, really professionalizing some of the things that we used to do, just can really–can level up with AI.

JoDee, I think you found that AI can save even five to ten hours per week. Think about the five to ten hours that you’ve saved. What are you gonna do with those hours? Well, let’s hope that maybe you are thinking about how to be more present in my company or with our employees.

Virtual coffee chats with employees. Start, you know, carving out time to do those things you’d like–some of the “like to dos” you never had time to do. New hire check-ins, going back to the people you onboarded last month or two months ago, how are things going? We’ve talked about Bill Finnegan’s stay interviews. Let’s talk to people. What’s keeping you here? When’s the last time you thought about looking for another job? What prompted that? What could we be doing differently here?

Maybe your career development conversations, forming or creating individual development plans with people, so having those discussions, facilitating cross-functional networks, maybe some of the manager coaching. So, you know there’s managers out there who just need to either be pumped up with some confidence or maybe they just need some course corrections, taking the time now to do it because you’re not doing some of those transactional things. So, JoDee, what else do you have, can you think of?

JoDee Curtis (14:35)
Well, I just–I feel like I have easily saved five to ten hours a week. but I don’t find myself with an extra five to ten hours a week.

But I am doing different things that–you mentioned about it being a time reallocation tool. You know, I do feel like I’m doing I’m spending more time doing things that I find joy in and some of those relationships.

I will admit too, I may sound way behind, but I’d been using it for lots of the things that you mentioned, but just recently I’ve been using it more in Excel on some reporting tools that I do. And my goodness, I have saved a huge amount of time on those too.

Susan White (15:26)
Are you using it to create Excel spreadsheets or to take the data you already have out there and make conclusions? How are you using it?

JoDee Curtis (15:32)
Yes, to summarize data that I was already putting in a spreadsheet and now

summarizing it, like, instantly. So, agree.

Susan White (15:44)
Beautiful, beautiful.

JoDee Curtis (15:46)
Yeah.

Our next question is also about AI. So, a listener says, “What should we avoid when using AI with recruitment?”

Well, I think as with AI in anything we do, we should never use it as the final decision maker, right? We should use it as a tool to assist recruiters, hiring managers, anybody involved in the process, but emphasize that the human interaction and the oversight are critical in this area especially.

And you know, sometimes we assume AI is unbiased, and we’ve seen reports or studies where it’s not, so–or it cannot be, right? I’m not saying it’s–it always is biased, but there can be a bias built in.

Susan White (16:41)
There’s risk, right?

JoDee Curtis (16:43)
Yeah. AI learns from historical data and that can unintentionally replicate past hiring processes or biases related to gender, race, age, disability, or other protected classes. I think we have to audit our AI processes and tools too, to look for adverse impact and fairness across applicant groups. Not just trusting that the AI is doing the right things but actually testing the system itself.

I think we can get caught up in that AI can help us move the process along better, but we can’t ignore the candidate experience, right? If the candidate’s getting emails and responses and communication that are regurgitated through an AI bot, right, they’re gonna know that. And we need to use that time we’ve saved in efficiencies to have even better human interaction with this as we’re doing it. So.

Susan White (17:58)
Totally agree. And I think we all–we’ve mentioned this in an episode before–we’re all watching to see some of the court cases that are out there right now about AI having bias. And so–in the selection process particularly. So, we wanna just make sure that it’s always a human at the end of the day that makes that final hiring decision. Yeah.

JoDee Curtis (18:17)
Right. Right.

I think we also have to have clear policies around our AI and how we will use it and how we won’t, but… it can be significant in improving our efficiency, but let’s make the human part of it even better to build relationships, evaluate skills and make good hiring decisions.

Susan White (18:43)
Love that. Love that. Okay, so our next question is from a listener who said, “Help me understand metrics that are most important to HR and to the business, and the ability to benchmark those against others in similar industries.”

So, I think I’m gonna say first that this is gonna be a unique answer, depending on who your client is. So if you happen to be an HR or people leader in manufacturing in a particular industry, you are going to want to understand what’s important to driving revenue in that organization and to getting productivity in that organization and to revenue or profitability goals.

So, step one is to sit down with your leaders and talk about what are they worried about, what are their pain points, where are we headed as an organization, and then you’re going to be able to determine, is it important that we–if we’re in a in a mode where we’re going to be downsizing, well, let’s pay attention to turnover. Let’s understand how turnover can be our friend. And if so, we’re going to want to really track turnover in the near term and the long term.

Maybe you’re part of a growing organization and you’re going to be expanding into labor markets that you really don’t have a lot of familiarity with. Well, maybe what you want to do is you want understand wage rates, maybe you want to be tracking costs per hire in new versus old markets.

Let’s understand what the business needs are first. And that’s gonna drive, I think, which metrics you’re gonna wanna use. I’m gonna share some of the more popular ones with you now and then let’s talk about where we can benchmark.

All right. So, I would say turnover rate, almost every company, even if it is that they’re not in growth mode or they’re in a shrinkage mode, even in a maintenance mode, probably turnover is gonna be relevant because you wanna understand how many people are leaving. That’s gonna help you with your workforce planning. And you wanna understand why they’re leaving so if you can stem the tide, if you need to, or if you want to accelerate the tide, whatever you need is understanding what your turnover rate is probably a metric that everybody is watching in some way, shape, or form.

Retention rate, kind of the opposite of that. How are you–the turnover you’re having, is it desired or undesired? If it’s desired, you’re—want—maybe figure out how do we double down on it. If it’s undesired, what can we do about it, right?

Time to fill. For those of you that are in a growth mode, understanding how long it takes to fill an opening is probably a very good metric to have at your fingertips because you’re gonna—if you’re gonna be growing, you’re gonna need to understand how soon do you need to open up reqs? How long is that recruiting cycle? When do decisions need to be made? You can set milestones for yourself to ensure success. So, time to fill.

A fourth one that we see most of our clients concerned with is cost per hire. No matter where you are in your maturity as an organization, you do want to be efficient and wise and a good steward of recruiting dollars. So, understanding total recruiting costs divided by number of hires for whatever given period is probably important. So, I think that’s a good one to consider.

Offer acceptance rate. Certainly many of you who are hiring in volume, you need to understand your recruiting funnel. Like, offer—how many people do we need to interview in order to get how many actual selection—selects, people we want to hire, how many offers will come out of that? And are people over time starting to not accept our offers? Or are they accepting offers at a faster rate?

It will help you understand your volume management, how much you need to invest, or perhaps if you’re starting to see a change in offer acceptance, maybe we’re getting behind the market. Maybe we need to take a look at our process. Is there something we’re doing that’s alienating people? Are we falling behind wage-wise or benefit-wise? Or is there something we might need to course correct? So offer acceptance rate is another good one.

Employee engagement. I think all of us that care about having an awesome workplace want to understand how engaged our employees are. If it’s getting better, getting worse. So that could be a red flag. If it’s getting worse, that maybe there’s some changes necessary.

Absenteeism. If you certainly even care about production, you probably care about vacancy rate, you care about absenteeism, understanding what are we going to have to do to shore up our people in seats in order to get the production that we need.

And then training and development metrics. You know, are people growing here? Is that—if our employee engagement surveys are telling us that people want opportunities. Okay, so let’s take a look at how many people are being promoted from within. How many people might be leaving because we’re not providing those opportunities?

So I don’t know which ones for our listener is gonna be the ones that you wanna zero in on, but starting with the business, understanding what the needs are. And I would just say that the metrics that you focus on, understand that that might—we’re gonna focus on this for the next year or the next two quarters. It’s not forever. We—things change and we might, you know, give up a few metrics in order to replace them with a few metrics. And then when we feel like we’ve taken that mountain, there might be a couple of other metrics that come into play. We drop off some others.

Benchmarking. Let me just finish this up with saying understanding how you’re doing over time in your organization is probably your best benchmark because you understand if things are eroding or things are getting better. So definitely benchmark over time yourself. But I would also look within my industry, as our listener mentioned, do you belong to any associations that provide some of the metric information so you can benchmark against them? Many industries will—certainly in higher education, CUPA, CUPA is a good one to go to. In HR, SHRM is a good one to go to, there’s benchmarking data available.

Certainly, there are—PwC has wonderful—you do pay for this, but they do have wonderful benchmarking capabilities. If you do salary surveys, if you are working with Mercer or any salary surveying organization, often by your participating, you get an opportunity to see others in your industry, what they’re paying, what their benefits are, but also many of them will track turnover, cost per hire, some of these metrics that we think are really helpful to managing a business, you can get that for your industry just by virtue of your participating and being part of a salary survey.

Okay, long answer to that question, but JoDee, anything else you’d want to add?

JoDee Curtis (25:17)
Yeah, no, just—I think on the benchmarking, I, you know, worked in the accounting field for 21 years and we had tons of benchmarking data from other firms. And it was great and it was helpful, but you can’t just make an assumption that you’re great or you’re not great because you’re higher or lower than someone else. You have to understand what is it you’re doing and what is it they’re doing and you know, even on the comp, maybe they’re paying a higher salary, but their benefits are not good. And so that can have an impact on that as well too.

Susan White (26:00)
I think that is a great point. And I would just also—one other caution is make sure that the formula is the same that they use.

JoDee Curtis (26:06)
Yeah.

Susan White (26:06)
Cost per hire, I have seen it vary by almost every organization. So if—it may not be apples to apples that you’re comparing when you benchmark. Yeah.

JoDee Curtis (26:14)
Right, right. Good point.

So okay, next question. Our in—our listener was interested in hearing our thoughts about biases in recruiting veterans and those with legal records and how to overcome these biases, as well as the potential benefits of hiring from these groups.

Well, I think that biases towards veterans and individuals with legal records or, you know, criminal records of some sort often stem from assumptions rather than true facts. So, employers may worry that military experience, for example, won’t translate to the workplace, or that a past conviction predicts future performance. But in reality, veterans frequently bring strong leadership, adaptability, teamwork, and accountability skills. And those with criminal records may be highly motivated to prove themselves and become loyal, productive employees because they know it’s difficult for them to find work. So, when they find a good place to work, that they could be very loyal to that.

So just be sure as always that, you know, when hiring that you’re focusing on skills, potential, and job-related qualifications rather than stereotypes. And many companies that extend their talent pool to include these groups and, you know, we could talk about a lot of other groups too, people with disabilities and all of that. This listener specifically asked about these two. But when we open up our talent pools to include some people we might not have otherwise included, we many times can get dedicated employees who stay working there for a longer time and create a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

Susan White (28:30)
I think that’s great. The only thing I would add is given the current administration of our US government right now, this is 2026, so whenever you listen to this, you know, take it with a grain of salt. We—I think many companies have gone really

strong in the area of hiring veterans or people with a criminal record. I just want to say it’s time to be cautious because the federal government, the EEOC, looks to make sure you don’t have special programs for people who have veterans—that are veterans or any other—disability or any other protected class. They are working very hard and have made it a priority to ensure that all programs, opportunities have no assistance to any specialized group. So, something to think about.

I work—I’ve worked really hard on standing up veterans’ programs and just people with disabilities hiring programs. It’s really important to, I think, just be very cautious to ensure that it’s not programs that are only open to people with specialized background. So—which is very different thinking. All right, thank you.

The next question is, someone asked, “What are the HR challenges of blue-collar employees?”

What—what’s different? Because often—JoDee and I, because so much of our work has been in non-union environments, non-blue-collar environments, what are some of the things that should be on people’s radar?

If you’re a people leader or you’re an HR professional, you know, they can—there can be unique challenges, especially if it’s a unionized environment. You do want to have knowledge of collective bargaining; you do want to understand rules and requirements that are necessary there. Understand that your employees, if they are unionized, that they have rights that don’t always exist with non-unionized employees and they have the ability to file grievances, that you have to follow your collective bargaining agreement to ensure that you’re meeting timelines. So, you do want to take it seriously, be specialized in it and make sure that you are, you know, living the spirit and the letter of those bargaining agreements.

I would also mention that with blue-collar employees, I think that it’s important that we as people leaders appreciate the fact that often the work can be physically demanding, more physically demanding than somebody’s in a white-collar job, and that frontline supervisors have to—obviously they’re managing for production and for accuracy and quality, but they also have to have a lot of empathy. And without that, you’re gonna have turnover, you’re gonna have short fuses.

Because they—the blue-collar employee that’s sometimes working in environments that can be dangerous, you’ve got to make sure that you are ensuring workplace safety, that you’re taking extra time to communicate with people verbally, empathically, because they may not—you can’t just send out an email and expect people to read it. They’re—they may not have access to a computer. If you are trying to get messaging out quickly to people, you gotta think about how am I going to do that? It’s not just, you know, shooting out a text and everybody’s got a phone right next to them. They may not be able to have their phone with them in your workplace for—because of safety issues or whatnot.

So, I do think that it’s important that you recognize with blue-collar employees that they—I think there’s an extra level of tender loving care. My maiden name was Tinder, so we always said it’s really important to have Tinder TLC, Tinder loving care in everything we do. Isn’t that funny? But I do I think it’s especially important blue-collar employees. Yeah.

JoDee Curtis (32:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Susan White (32:07)
JoDee, how do you find joy at work personally?

JoDee Curtis (32:12)
Well, thank you for asking. There’s actually several different ways I do, but one thing, as we talked about AI earlier in the conversation, it—that has really had me thinking lately about how I find even more joy at work now than I did before because I’m not spending as much time on maybe detail-oriented things or formulas in an Excel spreadsheet or you know, writing or communications.

Now, it’s obviously it’s important on our communications that we’re not just, you know, dispersing things we find on AI, but I do think it can help us to have better conversations or to word things better.

And I’m just a very goal-oriented person, so I find joy in accomplishing things throughout the day or checking things off of my list. And I feel like I’ve been—just in the past couple of weeks, I’ve found a lot of joy in doing that and saying, “I’m gonna get these things done today,” and making them happen. Even if they’re not the most exciting things I do in the day, just feeling accomplished about it is helpful. So, yeah.

Susan White (33:40)
That’s great. Thank you.

JoDee Curtis (33:42)
Yeah. And now it’s time for in the news. In an article by Toni Frana on July 30th, 2026, in the FlexJobs Workplace Connection Report she found that 39% of U.S. workers said they only sometimes feel socially connected to their colleagues, while another 20% said that they rarely or never experience connection with their co-workers.

Interestingly, they found this happened regardless of whether the workers were fully remote or in the office full-time. That is, they set out to really account for the difference of whether people felt as connected when they were working virtually or not, and they found no difference.

So, 43% of their survey respondents said that their work arrangement has no real impact on connection with colleagues at work. Fifty percent—they’ve said they’ve experienced some form of miscommunication with their manager, which—that doesn’t surprise me, right? That—I’m surprised it’s not higher than that, actually. But 25% of those said miscommunication occurred primarily with in-person work, compared to just 10% who said it happens with remote or hybrid work. And I just found that interesting.

It made me wonder if maybe when we’re working remotely with people, we’re more clear about setting expectations or about when we need things by. Or, you know, it might be, well, I’m not gonna just walk past you in the hall anymore, so if I’ve got questions for you or I need to know when something’s done, I’m gonna ask it and be clear about that. So.

Susan White (35:57)
It makes sense. Maybe you don’t have time to just be too casual and yeah, right, and gray. You’ve gotta be really specific and really direct because your interactions are, you know, remote and—that’s very interesting. I’m surprised the results are almost opposite of what I thought they would be. Yeah. Fascinating.

Well, it makes me sad about people feeling they have no social connection at work. I think about in my work history, when I had a friend at work or someone I liked or that we had a buddy, that was just the more joyful times in my career. So.

JoDee Curtis (36:29)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan White (36:32)
Let’s find a friend.

JoDee Curtis (36:34)
Well, thanks for listening today. And if you’re SHRM certified, you can get credit for listening to this episode. To get the code, go to getjoypowered dot com slash SHRM and fill out a short evaluation. When you finish the evaluation, you’ll get the code and a link to a proof of participation certificate. And the code will expire on September 7th, 2027. Again, you can go to getjoypowered.com slash SHRM to get the code, and it will expire on September 7th, 2027.

Thank you for listening and thank you for your dedication to the HR profession. Please tune in next time and as always make it a JoyPowered® day.

Susan White (37:31)
Thank you.