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Susan 0:08
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Podcast, where we talk about embracing humanity in the workplace. I’m Susan White, a national HR consultant. With me is my co-host and friend JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, an HR consulting firm, and author of “JoyPowered®” and “The JoyPowered® Family.”

JoDee 0:24
In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about executive coaching. And guess what? We have our own in-house expert on executive coaching, the person who I send any of my clients to who need coaching is our own Susan White.

Susan 0:40
Yay!

JoDee 0:41
Yay! So Susan, how long have you been doing executive coaching?

Susan 0:46
I’ve been doing executive coaching, I’d say, the last three years or so, and it really kind of happened organically. I am not a certified executive coach. And as we’ll talk about, there’s a number of programs out there where you can get credentialed in this. What I really had was my just practical experience after over 30 years in a large corporate environment and having coached a lot of colleagues and executives in their roles. But as I was out doing consulting, I was often doing business with different companies and helping them with whatever HR initiatives they had, and periodically I started getting requests saying, “Do you ever do executive coaching? We have an executive here that we think you could be helpful with. You know our business, you understand, you know, what our mission is. Would you be willing to do it?” So you know me, I’ll say yes to anything once. And I really have loved it.

JoDee 1:38
Nice. Well, that’s – I think it’s important to highlight you’ve been doing executive coaching, what’d you say, for three and a half years on your own, but I am certain you’ve been doing executive coaching for 33 years, right? Just was maybe not always called that or sort, sort of unofficial. Who do you think are the types of clients who, who… or types of people who benefit from executive coaching?

Susan 2:09
You know, I would say traditionally, executive coaching has been used when you have somebody in the C-suite or some other person that might be a high potential that someday may be in the in the top echelon of your company. But I’m going to tell you, I think executive coaching is helpful for anybody at any time in their career. An executive coach is usually brought in when somebody who’s doing well in most all aspects of their job, except for one or maybe two, and they think, you know, this person could benefit if someone came in and really helped them focus on, for example, being able to be a better team player, or maybe somebody who is just not good at talking through issues or, you know, having the tough conversations, whatever that particular element is that they think they need coaching on. I think that every person in the workplace could benefit from having an executive coach help them through something, some barrier that’s holding them back.

JoDee 3:04
Right. I totally agree. I, you know, many times we will get a call from a client at Purple Ink that is looking for training, and they might even say, “Well, we need training on this topic because we have a person or two who’s really struggling with this.” And I have many times suggested coaching as opposed to training, although obviously, I’m an advocate for training and you can hit a lot of people with one topic, many times an individual just needs that individual one-on-one coaching time.

Susan 3:39
Have you ever seen in a company where they put everybody through some training program, and they’re really trying to get the message to one person?

JoDee 3:45
Exactly! Yes.

Susan 3:46
Everyone in the room was thinking, I don’t need this training. I know Joe does, but why are we all here?

JoDee 3:50
And typically the person who is the one who needs it doesn’t realize they’re that person either, right? They don’t even know.

Susan 3:57
Well, executive coaching allows you to with laser focus really target the individual, help them build a plan on how are we going to fix whatever the issue is.

JoDee 4:08
Right. Right. How do you actually define coaching, Susan?

Susan 4:13
Well, you know, in preparation for today, I did a little research and I found that the Executive Coach Academy defines executive coaching as “a facilitative, one-on-one, mutually designed relationship between a professional coach and a key contributor who has a powerful position in the organization.”

JoDee 4:30
I like it. I like it. And you mentioned that you are not certified. Would you recommend if other people are interested in being a coach, that they look at certification and/or if someone is looking for an executive coach, do they need to be certified?

Susan 4:50
Great questions. Well, I think that coaching certification is a good thing. I think that it helps somebody who maybe doesn’t have a lot of experience doing it, they have more of a desire to do it, to go in and really whichever package they decide to get involved in will give them a framework and will hopefully help them come out the other side of it with a really good solid process. Now, as I mentioned, I am not certified, so I’ve really developed a process based on some of my real world experience, which I think I’m going to walk through in just a moment, because I think it would be helpful for any of our listeners. And, you know, you may be an HR person in your company, and they’re looking to you to help to coach the executives there. I’m hoping that what I provide could give you a nice framework. Now, where would you go if you wanted to get accredited? It’s so easy to just Google “executive coaching” and you’ll find lots of different alternatives out there. Some business schools have them, probably the easiest place to go would be to the International Coach Federation, or the ICF. And they accredit coaches and they also provide a nice resource if you’re a business out there thinking, I don’t really want to get someone accredited on my team to be an executive coach, but I periodically might want to use one. You can certainly go there and they’ve got a list of certified coaches.

JoDee 6:10
And you said it was easy to go there, but it actually is a very intensive program.

Susan 6:16
Oh, very intensive.

JoDee 6:17
It’s easy to Google, I think is what you meant, but…

Susan 6:19
Exactly.

JoDee 6:21
…for someone to get the certification, that’s a long process that requires a lot of practicing and experience and education.

Susan 6:29
Absolutely. I had a friend who recently went through a program and before you actually complete that program, you have to demonstrate you’ve got several executive coaching clients that you are working with, and they’ve – you have to demonstrate that you had success with them. So yeah, please…it’s not – when I – I use the word “easy” way too easily.

JoDee 6:54
Susan, I think you’re certified as well, but probably just certified through the school of hard knocks, right? Or school of many years of experience in doing this. So, yeah. So can you walk us through maybe a sample of your process, or walk us through at what – how you would approach a client?

Susan 7:14
I sure would. And I would love any input you might have, JoDee, because I think we can always strengthen the process, or maybe some experiences that you’ve had as you’ve coached people just in your natural work. So JoDee, the first thing I like to do when I get a new executive coaching client is I really want to start with that person’s manager or direct leader. And the reason I want to do that is because first of all, that’s usually who has decided the person has some type of issue that they need to work through, and this may not be a shared perception by the individual. So I really want to start with why does the leader or the manager of this person think that there’s something that needs to be fixed, and when I meet with that leader, I will ask for their perception of the person’s strengths, their weaknesses, and, really, the opportunity that I think they have. Sometimes it makes sense to do a 360, and I know that you’re familiar, obviously, many of most of our listeners would be, as well, right? But a 360 would enable you to find out not only what the leader thinks, and you’re certainly going to get input from the person who you’re going to coach, but also some of their peers, you know, what are they seeing in meetings? What are they seeing when they work on group projects? I also think it’s important to hear, if that person manages people, I’d love to hear what that individual’s direct reports think. And I think it enables you to really come at it before you start thinking about how are we going to attack this particular issue, really understand the what people think, because if it’s only a boss thinking it, it may not be real.

JoDee 8:44
Right. And if the coaching client’s organization does not do a 360, can you facilitate that for them?

Susan 8:53
Oh, absolutely. There’s wonderful instruments out there, and if your company doesn’t have something in-house you already use that’s something as a career coach, I love to offer up. I work with a firm out of Ohio that it’s a very simple, easy, affordable process, and I think just very helpful for the individual to get a full picture of how they are viewed.

JoDee 9:11
Right. Very few people really get that opportunity, I think, to get that kind of feedback from their peers and their teams. And they’re, hopefully they’re getting it from their bosses or supervisors, but many times they’re not, and so I think that’s such a valuable process for people to go through.

Susan 9:33
I do. I’ve seen some companies I’ve worked with that when they have some type of a leadership program, or any type of developmental thing, that’s the first thing they offer the individual. There may not be any reason to think there’s a problem here, but let’s let the individual have that insight of a full picture of how they’re viewed. And then as they figure out what are the things, the strengths they have that they want to really capitalize on, well, it’s super to hear from all those people you work with closely what those are, as well as opportunities to get better.

JoDee 10:02
Very good.

Susan 10:03
So that’s really step one. Step one is to meet – in my mind, is to meet with the leader. And then step two is to talk to the individual themselves and find out, do they see this issue that the manager has brought me in to help them coach them through as a real issue. One of my favorite coaching models I’ve seen is, the first thing you have to do to ever really effectively coach someone is, step one is awareness. Is an individual really aware that this is a problem? Step two is, is this problem owned by the individual? So does the individual really believe that they’re the person who’s held accountable for it, that they’re responsible for it? You know, for example, let’s say the manager thinks that the individual isn’t good at meeting deadlines. Right? And I meet with you individually, you say, “Yeah, you’re right, Susan, I have not been able to meet any of my deadlines here to date. But here’s the reason. My boss dumps the projects on me on Friday afternoons, and expects them on Monday morning,” you know, and so when I get a situation like that, and I realize the person doesn’t feel like they own it, I could do the best coaching in the world and I’m not going to make them better, because they don’t feel like they own it.

JoDee 11:11
Right.

Susan 11:11
So that causes me to go back to the leader, we have a whole different kind of conversation, right?

JoDee 11:15
Do you sometimes – I am wondering if many times you might get a client where the boss thinks there’s a problem and wants you to talk to them about it.

Susan 11:26
Yeah.

JoDee 11:26
And not be involved in the process. Is that common as well?

Susan 11:30
It is. And I say, “You know, I gotta be honest with you. The person has to hear it from you. If you think that this is an issue, the first time they hear it shouldn’t be from the executive coach they hired in from the outside. I’m vested in their success at fixing it, but you own telling them.”

JoDee 11:45
Right. I was thinking that that, that would have to be a key part of the ownership for the individual even, that, “Oh…”

Susan 11:52
That’s right.

JoDee 11:52
“Susan White says I have a problem meeting deadlines,” right?

Susan 11:56
So who cares, right? Yeah, that’s so true. So, you know, step two is they have to really believe that they can fix the problem, that they own it. Step three is a coaching client has to be motivated to fix it or to change it. And I will tell you that where this could go awry is if, let’s say the person says – the problem is that the manager gives me, “You know, this person is just not a good team player, and they really need to work well with others, and so I need you to help them, you know, work across the silos and really be our role model of team, team spirit.” And I get there and I meet with the individual, they say, “Yeah, that’s right. I’m not a team player. I – that is who I am. I am extremely competitive. I love to win. And that is really why I’ve been so successful all these years.” And that person is not motivated, at least in that conversation. I need to help work on why it’s in their best interest, this teamwork that the manager wants to work on. I’ve got to sometimes pull back that manager and and explain, “Okay, we have been paying you on straight commission, and the fact is, there’s going to be a component of your incentive comp that we’re going to move to team.”

JoDee 13:02
Right.

Susan 13:03
Because otherwise, that person is not motivated to change.

JoDee 13:06
Exactly.

Susan 13:06
So I really do need to have that motivation. And then once we have the issue that they’re aware of, they realize they own it, and they’re motivated to change, then executive coaching can really make the difference.

JoDee 13:18
Nice. That’s terrific.

Susan 13:21
Okay, so after, I would say, I’ve met with the manager, I met with the individual, and we all agree executive coaching makes sense in this particular case, step three is really developing an action plan. And that’s where the coaching client and myself say, “Okay, here’s what the real issue is.” And I try to say, let’s break it down into either the three parts of this issue that we want to attack, or sometimes that the person has more than one issue, we’ll, you know, actually come up with two on one and one on one. I’m a real believer in the power of three. I don’t think that a person can really successfully conquer almost any challenge if there’s more than three big areas of focus.

JoDee 14:03
Hmm, I like it.

Susan 14:05
Yeah. Happy to have less, but no more than three. And so for each of those, let’s say it’s somebody who is having trouble with teamwork, and they’re motivated at this point to make a change, then maybe that teamwork is, one is, like, building relationships. So one area of focus we’re going to do is, how do we, maybe if you’ve been in a company for a while it’s rebuilding relationships, what can we do, and so that’s going to be an area of focus. Maybe a second one is, how can I create my, personally create an environment where I welcome people in on projects I’m working on, so maybe it’s going to be inviting others in on, on projects, and then we’ll come up with a third one. So for each of those areas of focus, together, we talk about what are some tactical things we can do. I usually like to go away and do some research and find what are some tools out there that’s going to focus on this area, area of need, as I’ve talked about in prior podcasts. I love TED Talks.

JoDee 15:02
Right.

Susan 15:02
Give me a topic, we’re gonna find a TED Talk to help you through through it. I also like books, there’s some good books that the person… I try to find from them, do they like podcasts? Do they like YouTube videos? Do they like to read? Do they like to go to workshops? There’s, you know, there’s a lot of in-person types of things that they could go to. What type of learning style really works for them?

JoDee 15:24
That’s great.

Susan 15:26
I will also sometimes say, “Maybe we just try some things. Let’s, we’ll, in each area of focus, maybe there’s some new behaviors that I’m going to ask you to trust me to try, and then we’re going to debrief after you do those, and we’ll learn from those.” I’ve found that to be really effective as well.

JoDee 15:39
Nice. Nice. And what about a timeline overall? Do you typically start a coaching relationship thinking we’ll meet three times or 10 times or does it… you just keep going to see how it goes?

Susan 15:56
Yeah, that’s a great question. It really depends on the company and the individual and really, their… the sense of urgency that there might be. Some companies, when they bring in an executive coach, they say, “Listen, we’d love to have you work with her, work with him, maybe five times and see what we can do.” Other places, they’ll say, “Listen, here’s the issue, and we don’t care how long it takes. We want the person at the end of this to be really comfortable in their own skin on, you know, talking to other people,” or whatever it is. So I really try to tailor it to their needs. If left to my own devices, and I get a chance to work with someone until I feel like they’re really feeling good, on the average, it’s usually three to six months, depending on the topic and the issue.

JoDee 16:40
And do you prefer to do it on a monthly basis, or do you like to give some people more time in between sessions to be able to practice or try different things?

Susan 16:51
I like to get together every two to three weeks.

JoDee 16:53
Oh!

Susan 16:54
The reason I like to do that is because I think it keeps it on the radar when they know that two weeks or three weeks from now, they’re gonna be back with me and we’re going to talk about how things went. Or maybe they’re going to have, you know, read a book, or they’re going to have watched a YouTube video that we’re going to debrief. I just think it keeps the rhythm better. Now, I will – have done it different ways. I’ve had some people who want to meet every week, and I’ve had some who need to do it once a month. Now, I’ve not always done these in person either.

JoDee 17:21
I was just going to ask that.

Susan 17:23
I love in person. You know, that’s, that’s ideal. But I think you could have just as effective meetings on Skype, on Google Chat, on any number of other platforms. And that’s helpful too, because people travel a lot for their work, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be in person.

JoDee 17:39
Right. Well, I like your approach to this. It seems very natural, very practical, and I know it’s important to you to get to know the other person and understand their style.

Susan 17:53
It really is. I think for you to really trust your executive coach, you have to build that rapport in the beginning, and I really, I truly try to spend my first meeting, you know, sharing my vulnerability, finding out their vulnerability, and making sure that they feel comfortable with me. So far, I’ve never had anybody, you know, say, “I think I’d like a different coach,” but I would get that. I would understand, because it’s just, for you to really be coached, especially executive coached, I think you have to have trust and faith and really like the person you’re working with.

JoDee 18:28
Right. And coaching has been around for a long time, but I feel like I hear more about it these days. I know in my former life, people went to or were sent to coaches when they had problems. Now, I think many executives, leaders, managers, it’s, it’s a more even a part of company cultures, right? That, that’s just what they do to help people, is have coaches.

Susan 18:58
I agree. I think there used to be a little stigma around it, like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve gotta go see an executive coach.”

JoDee 19:03
Right.

Susan 19:03
Now it’s offered as a perk when you get in the fast track at a lot of companies, when you hit the C-suite, or if you’re, you know, designated as a high potential, it’s a perk, right?

JoDee 19:13
I love thinking of that as a perk, really, that, that every single person could be benefiting from.

Susan 19:21
I agree. Well, what I like to do, whenever I close out an executive coaching assignment, is I like to put on my own calendar a follow up date, like in six to nine months. I don’t mention it to them, but I do it myself. I reach out to them just with a note just to see how things are going and if whatever it was we worked on, has it been sustained. Do they feel like they really have knocked down that obstacle? And usually they do. Usually, I love hearing about the successes that they’ve had. And if they didn’t, then I would offer to, you know, revisit it and see if there’s any course correction we can do.

JoDee 19:54
Right, right. And what about you, you spent most of your career in the banking industry. Do you think there’s any connection, that employees should be looking for a coach within their industry, or does that matter?

Susan 20:11
That’s interesting, good question. I believe that most of the things that occur in executive coaching will transfer from one industry to another to another to another, to self-employment. Usually, the types of things that an executive coach will be brought in for has to do with problem solving and communication and teamwork and really behavioral types of competencies. So I don’t think it necessarily matters if your coach comes from a particular industry. It can be helpful, you know, if they understand your business, but I think through coaching, really a good relationship, you’re going to learn a lot about that person’s business and what they do.

JoDee 20:52
Right. Right. I agree.

Susan 20:54
Well, so JoDee, one of the places I went in preparation for today was to take a look at what’s happening in the world of executive coaching. And I found an article in April of 2018 from the Forbes Coaches Council, that they had compiled a list of the 15 trends that will redefine executive coaching in the next decade. I thought maybe we could talk about each one.

JoDee 21:17
Yes. The first one is the rise of the automated coach, which is interesting, I think, to use technology platforms, micro-learning sessions, gamification tools, so not just maybe face-to-face people, but a, more of a technology approach.

Susan 21:38
Yes. Well, I’m already being made obsolete.

JoDee 21:40
Right!

Susan 21:42
You know, actually, I have seen some of this in play, and I think it’s a great supplement for that human coaching. Because technology platforms, can you imagine being able to direct your client to different webinars and different resource libraries and various things on a coaching platform, just to make it simple? I mean, I go out now and I pull it together for the individual, but how great if they could, you know, self select different types of resources to help them with whatever their issue is. I also think gamification is really hot, and I think a lot of it’s because we’re trying to keep the world of work as interesting as we can.

JoDee 22:19
Right.

Susan 22:19
So you do see a lot of mobile apps and whatnot, like mindfulness and various things, to help keep things at the top of someone’s mind and at their fingertips.

JoDee 22:28
Right. Gamification is definitely a trend in the training and development space, and onboarding. More companies are using gamification tools for that, too, that, like you said, I think to keep it more interesting.

Susan 22:43
Right, I think we all kind of need that. So the number two on their list of 15 trends was an intersection of industry skills and coaching methodology. And this really goes back to your question, JoDee, you know, coaches who have strong industry and line experience instead of just focusing on certification or academic credentials. Once again, I think it’s great to have a blend of both. I think there’s a lot of, you know, good in going through a certification program or getting a degree that might support coaching. But they’re finding that a lot of people who are getting coaching as a perk, you know, they’re actually asking for it, they tend to want somebody who is in their industry or might know, their, their line of business.

JoDee 23:28
Which could be helpful, although sometimes I think we get too hung up on that, right, when really what we need is someone to help us be a better leader. Not quite as, as you mentioned, it’s not necessarily specific to the industry. So item number three, which is interesting, coaching will overtake consulting. And the article went on to say that consulting augments gaps in knowledge, but coaching emphasizes the transfer of wisdom. I like the way that’s worded, thinking about having a coach as opposed to a consultant.

Susan 24:11
I kind of like that. When I, when I think about it, a consultant comes in and they help you get something done or get something fixed, whereas a coach hopefully comes in and helps you be better. By the time they leave, they have strengthened some muscles or some skills and so they hopefully leave the place of employment better. I recently had coffee with a business consultant, and what he does is he goes in and helps businesses that need some operational advice, sometimes financial, just really helps them get their business back on track and figure out how to earn more profit and so on so forth. And so I said, “Why don’t you call yourself a business coach?” and he says, “The word coaching, I just don’t like it, Susan. I, I, it makes me feel, I feel funny about it.” I said, “People welcome coaches, because you’re going to leave that business stronger and more viable and better than a consultant who comes in and does a, hopefully a good quick fix.” So the fourth item on the list of Top 15 trends was increasing regulation that will define coaching types. For example, today you can be a coach just by hanging a shingle out and be a coach. It’s very non-regulated. And for the type of coaching we’re talking about, you know, we think that works as long as you, you know, you bring real tactical and practical advice. But there’s other types of coaching out there, you know, there’s career coaching, which we know Purple Ink does, and I do as well. There’s no regulations around it either. But there’s also life coaching, and life coaching has become extremely popular. I think that’s an area that sometimes it might make sense that the person who’s doing it, because it’s so fundamental to the whole person’s life, maybe some regulation isn’t a bad idea.

JoDee 25:52
Right. I agree. I agree. By the way, to give a little plug on the career coaching, so that would be something more specific to someone maybe looking for a new job, someone who doesn’t have a job, or even someone just, you know, is looking for specific avenues to grow within their company or maybe to pursue other opportunities within their organizations. But that might include things like update to their LinkedIn profile, practicing with their interviewing skills, help with a resume. And we have a, we have a whole podcast on that too, by the way, you can refer to.

Susan 26:33
Yes.

JoDee 26:35
The next one, the number five on the list is the ability to demonstrate measurable results. And I think this one is important to both the coach and the coachee, but maybe even most importantly to the organization itself, right? We can all go to a coach for five years if we want, but maybe not be able to show a measurable result. So, to do… you mentioned earlier, doing a 360 review at the beginning of the process. Well, what if they did another 360 a year later, two years later down the road, to see what some of the changes in the comments were. Are there specific behaviors? You mentioned a candidate might work with you because they couldn’t meet deadlines. Well, now are they meeting deadlines? Right? So something that, that can be objectively measured in the performance of the person.

Susan 27:35
I think that’s really smart. I think it then shows the return on investment of that executive coaching expense. And it may be, as you said, some simple things. It could be, is the person getting promoted? And if you offer, and some firms who offer executive coaching as a perk, that really can define, is the individuals going through it, are they ending up in higher level jobs within certain periods of time, so on and so forth? So I think it’s great. Well, the next trend is greater acceptance by executives. Kind of reflects the things we’ve talked about, and what we’re hearing in the marketplace is that people are not feeling like they’re being told they have to have a coach, they’re asking for coaches.

JoDee 28:10
Right. The next one is experience coaching will gain prominence. People want to learn in a format that is memorable and fun, and I think getting that individual one-on-one coaching may be different than going to classes or big group training.

Susan 28:31
I think so too. I think people, for example, who are not good with time management, they’re like, they’ve said to me, “Susan, I’ve been to every time management class offered in this city, or I’ve read every book on it, and I am not getting better.” Well, if you can have somebody coaching you who’s watching you, maybe it’s observing is what you’re going to do. You’d be amazed at what a lift you might be able to get. So just as an example, another experiential type of fix that I have recommended for a client before that really was helpful, was I encouraged them to join a Toastmasters group, because they had a difficult time really speaking in front of others. And he came out on the other side of that just feeling really strong and now has really taken it in his personal life as well as at work and I think he really now enjoys getting up and getting a chance to make presentations. So the next one on the trends is there’s going to be an increased focus on positive psychology. And JoDee, I know with your StrengthFinders background, you’re going to love this. They believe that executive coaching will focus more on what people do well and how to maximize those strengths as opposed to executive coaching just people when they have a flaw.

JoDee 29:43
Right, right. Love that. And we do, at Purple Ink, we do coaching specifically around people’s strengths, where we help them to utilize their strengths to get things done or to be a better leader or to be a better person or to improve specific skill sets they’re working on. So yes, I loved that one especially. Another item on the list is a laser sharp focus on interpersonal skills. So think about just taking one aspect of your behavior or your performance and having the opportunity to work one-on-one with a coach around that. I think it’s super powerful.

Susan 30:24
Me too. I do. So the next trend that’s mentioned is content over process. As coaches with deep industry or leadership experience will be sought after, they will have more freedom to approach coaching in a way that meets both the coach and the coachee’s needs, which is how I like to do it. So I’m really pleased that’s really taking off.

JoDee 30:44
Right. And the next trend they call “relationships, results, and rewards.” If you think our world is moving quickly, now they’re projecting it to move even faster, so having that time frame for building rapport, getting results will likely even tighten even more going forward. So having a personal coach to help you through that can be very rewarding.

Susan 31:08
And the next trend is working with a coach will be a norm. It’ll be the norm.

JoDee 31:12
Yeah. And the next one, digitalization of coaching. So we talked about technology, but this maybe even in a different light, webinars, online training, texting, as, as all of us have less face-to-face meetings in our lives.

Susan 31:30
And then specialization will take over. So executive coaching will start having specialties by – as we talked about, maybe by industry, but also by early career coaching, they’ll – executive coach might specialize in people, you know, fresh grads. Coaches will specialize in maybe sales, management coaching, so on and so forth. So they do expect that executive coaches will start to specialize quite a bit more.

JoDee 31:54
Yeah. And as you’ve mentioned before, the last trend on the list is executive coaching is not just for the elite or the high potentials. I think I agree with them that I see that trend continuing into all ranks of an organization, as people look for ways to help their teams and employees be better.

Susan 32:16
Terrific. Well, that’s great. Well, that’s the trend. We’d love to hear from any of our listeners who’ve had good or bad experiences with executive coaching, or anything that you would like to share, we’d love to share it with our listeners.

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JoDee 32:56
Our next area is our newer area of our podcast that we’re calling our best practice sharing. We recently asked our listeners, “What is the one wellness benefit you offer that has given you the best return on investment?” And that, of course, is difficult sometimes, to measure activities that we do or benefits that we offer in the wellness area. So I love this question.

Susan 33:22
Yeah. And just to make sure that we’re all on the same page about wellness, you know, the types of things that you do in the workplace perhaps to help make people be healthier, physically, mentally, socially. And I think that it has gotten a lot of press of late and I thought, we thought it would be helpful to find out what’s working for you. What’s the, what’s the one that you thought would be helpful? We were so pleased with all the responses we got, but we did want to share three of them.

JoDee 33:48
Yeah. So the first one from Erin in Indianapolis. Her company offered a workout program that was in-house and paid employees up to two dollars a day in HSA benefits, up to $500. I love that their reward was paid through the HSA.

Susan 34:09
Well, I gotta tell you, I could think of 1,000 reasons not to work out. But if I thought I was getting $2 in my HSA, it just might get me up and going.

JoDee 34:16
Right.

Susan 34:16
That’s great. Well, I love what Scott told us. Scott is a manager of a large customer contact center in the Midwest and he said, “Now, this may sound small, but flu shots have a major impact in keeping people healthy and not missing work.” You know, I have to tell you, I think it’s great because it keeps people at work. But it all – those flu shots also keep the sick people from coming in. And, you know, being present when I want them at home in bed. So I’m all about that. Scott, thank you for that.

JoDee 34:44
Right. I love that. And Deb from Chicago. I love her perspective on a wellness benefit, she said was having unlimited paid time off. And that was a benefit that gives you permission to take a day when you need to keep yourself mentally and physically well, and I think it prevents presenteeism, which makes others sick as well, as you mentioned about the flu shot.

Susan 35:09
I do agree. You know, I never thought about unlimited vacation time or PTO time as a wellness benefit.

JoDee 35:14
I know, I like that perspective.

Susan 35:16
But Deb, I love that. Yeah, so true. Thank you.

JoDee 35:20
I know one of my benefits that I thought was one of the best from the past was when I worked for an organization that had wellness assessments. And we’d have a team come in once a year and do a blood test and just some basic care that many people who didn’t do a regular annual exam were at least getting some of the basics done. And we – it was always surprising how many issues came out of those.

Susan 35:48
I agree. I also see where companies sometimes gives you your BMI. And oh my gosh, so many people go back to their desk saying, “I can’t believe it. I can’t believe that I’m obese,” or whatever the, that was, it was always like, come on, that’s just one factor here.

JoDee 36:03
Right, right.

Susan 36:04
Okay, so in the news, Robert Half did a study in 2018 on counteroffers that reported that 58% of employers have made at least one counteroffer to a staff member wanting to leave their company. They found that once someone accepts a counteroffer, they only stay an average of 1.7 years afterwards. Does that surprise you, JoDee?

JoDee 36:24
It did. I knew it was bad, but I didn’t realize it was that bad.

Susan 36:29
I always used to think that when we made a counteroffer to someone and they stayed, I thought I better start looking for who’s going to be the replacement because, in general, they’ve already emotionally…

JoDee 36:39
Right.

Susan 36:39
…went through the effort to go interview somewhere else, to get an offer. And now they’re talking to me, and I, you know, hope they stay, but I bet I – from that point forward, I was kind of aware that I may not have this person’s heart and soul.

JoDee 36:51
Right.

Susan 36:52
So the online survey that was developed by Robert Half and conducted by a leading independent research firm included responses from more than 5,500 hiring decision makers in the United States across a variety of professional fields. So Paul McDonald, a senior executive director for Robert Half, said, “Counteroffers are typically a knee-jerk reaction to a broader staffing issue. While they may seem like a quick fix for employers, the solution is often temporary. When employees accept a counteroffer, they will likely quit soon afterward.”

JoDee 37:24
Yeah.

Susan 37:25
It’s really given me a love hate relationship with counteroffers.

JoDee 37:27
I agree. I think I, I always hesitate to recommend them, because I know the statistics are not good on them staying, but yet, sometimes I can’t help but, when you have someone you want to keep, that it’s hard not to make that counteroffer.

Susan 37:44
And you know how long it might take to replace that skill. I do, I worry that other employees will hear that, you know, the person came forward, we ended up giving them a raise to stay…

JoDee 37:54
Right.

Susan 37:54
…and sometimes that can start a cycle of other people saying, “All right, if that’s what it takes to get a raise here, I’m going to go and get an offer as well.”

JoDee 38:02
Right.

Susan 38:02
So proceed with caution if you’re, if you’re needing to do a counteroffer. All right, well, hey, please tune in next time.

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