Click here for this episode’s show notes.

This transcript was created using an automated transcription service and may contain errors.

Cassie 00:01
When you think about the prevalence of domestic abuse that oftentimes is thought about to be an at-home issue, there’s really a tremendous spillover that happens in the workplace.

JoDee 00:15
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help HR and business leaders embrace joy in the workplace. I’m JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, an HR consulting and talent development firm, and with me is my good friend and co-host, Susan White, owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, also an HR consulting practice.

JoDee 00:44
Our topic today is domestic violence in the workplace. Although domestic violence in the workplace might not sound like a very JoyPowered® topic, what we want to talk about today is how important it is for workspaces, especially JoyPowered® workplaces, to have safe and secure environments for our people, right? So it’s actually a really important topic, and will connect. You might also think, why talk about domestic violence? Well, because as you’re, as you will find, there’s a lot of correlation to how that does bleed into the workplace and become some serious workplace issues as well. So relationship abuse occurs when one person uses physical, sexual, psychological, or even economic abuse to control the other person in a romantic relationship. But the abuse just doesn’t stay at home. Instead, it can manifest itself in the workplace through harassment, intimidation, or manipulation by an abusive partner. This can have damaging effects on the survivor’s professional and overall well-being. In an article by Jannik Linder in August of 2024, they reported many different American sources – and I’m going to warn you, we have a lot of statistics here, but I think just shows the impact that this really has in our workforce. 60% of US workplaces lack a formal policy on domestic violence, even though 94% of corporate security professionals believe this is a threat. One in four women and one in nine men experience severe intimate partner physical violence. This includes sexual violence and stalking with impacts such as injury, fear, post-traumatic stress disorder, and more. And another 74% – this one really hit me. Susan – 74% of HR professionals report that they have assisted an employee who has experienced domestic violence just within the past year.

Susan 03:29
Yikes, awful. Domestic violence incidents are reported to have increased by 35% since the Covid-19 lockdowns. So that was extremely impactful, right, I think people spending so much time alone together with their domestic partners. In one survey, 78% of HR professionals indicated that they needed more workplace training about domestic violence, and 76% of employers believe that domestic violence is a serious issue, but only 20% feel prepared to address it effectively.

JoDee 04:04
Up to 98% of employed domestic violence victims experience problems at work due to the abuse, and 30 to 60% of intimate partner violence is reported to occur on workplace premises. So as I mentioned, if you think domestic violence is not impacting the work, it’s actually happening at work many times. And 40% of employees have experienced or witnessed domestic abuse in the workforce.

Susan 04:42
Wow. Workplace violence incidents have increased 12% over the last decade, with domestic violence being a significant contributor. Thirty-one percent of employed victims of domestic violence report that their abusers have shown up at the workplace, and 61% of domestic violence victims have lost their jobs due to reasons related to the abuse. I can think of my times working in HR in a large corporation, it was not unusual to have a person who’s going through domestic issues, divorces, cheating allegations, all those types of things happening, where the partner would call us to report things, to let us know something horrible about an employee. And of course, you know, we always took it as – Is it relevant? Is it not relevant? Is it something that is true or not true? Is there anything we need to do or not do? But it, you know, it is real. It is absolutely real. I can see why people sometimes lose their jobs.

JoDee 05:44
Right, right. And get this one – 70% of abusers use their work computers to intimidate or monitor their partners. So not only do we have people in the workplace suffering from this, the actual abusers are doing it at work too. Twenty-five percent of workplace violence incidents are perpetrated by a current or former spouse or partner of the victim. And women who experience domestic violence are more likely to be unemployed or underemployed compared to women who have not been abused.

Susan 06:25
Yeah, and a couple final statistics, 67% of domestic violence survivors report that the abuse affected their ability to get work. And finally, nearly one in five employed domestic violence victims lose their jobs due to reasons stemming from the abuse.

JoDee 06:41
You can imagine, they’re physically unable to get to work, or they’re late for work, or, you know, lots of reasons why that might happen.

Susan 06:53
Sure.

JoDee 06:53
I know, again, that that was a long list of horrible statistics, but this is only a small of the amount of the data and statistics that I found. I have to admit, I had no idea how significant of an issue this was. When tallied up, the price of partner abuse is estimated to be more than $8.3 billion per year. These statistics show that what many mistakenly consider a private issue has a very public impact on the workforce and the economy. These costs include lower productivity, errors, mistakes, and work manager and HR professional time spent dealing with these issues, lost work, and many other issues. It is estimated that a total of 8 million days of paid work are lost by survivors of domestic violence each year.

Susan 08:04
Wow.

JoDee 08:05
Yeah. And so many times, of course, we don’t know, right? We don’t know what it is that is causing people to not be at work, or…

Susan 08:18
They may call in and use some kind of excuse that would be less embarrassing to them, and so we don’t know. How do we really get a handle on what’s happening to our employees? I don’t know.

JoDee 08:28
Right. So how can we as HR professionals and business leaders assist the victims, reduce the abuse, and deal with these impacts? Well, a few things I found, assuring job security is one way for businesses to create a supportive environment. When we are able to offer flexible work arrangements, remote work, flexible hours, extended leave, this may allow victims time to seek help without fear of losing their jobs. And I know that’s not always possible, but when, when we can offer that, that can be helpful. We could also offer educational opportunities for our employees to learn about partner violence and to offer support to those who may be experiencing it, whether they want to talk about it or not, right, we still may be able to offer some resources or comfort to them. Make it known, of course, that employees can use FMLA for health-related issues of any kind, but certainly including domestic abuse. And creating a safe work environment for survivors of abuse is another way to address the issues. Companies that can offer employees mental health services, an EAP, workplace safety policies, and advocacy services to employees. In addition, they can create a safe environment for employees to speak up about relationship abuse.

Susan 10:16
So I love all those suggestions, JoDee, and I just might add that your EAP, I’m assuming that most everybody has access to an EAP. The idea of them coming in to just do education, lunch and learns, or any other type of, of, of just awareness training could be so helpful for employees who may have not identified as needing help. Maybe it’ll give them some comfort to do it, and supervisors and coworkers to understand the reality of some of these statistics that were just horrifying to share. I just think that many are like you and I, that we’re just not as aware of the reality of it. So I would tap into your EAP if you could.

JoDee 10:56
Right. And with one of those early statistics we mentioned, that one in five women are dealing with – or one in four women are dealing with this, and one in nine men are dealing with this too. So we do have people in our workplaces where this is an issue, but even think of the effects of… our people might also – they may be directly involved, but they may have other family members or friends outside of work that are dealing with this too, so the education could go a long way. Right? We’ve invited a guest today to help us explore more options to assist employees. Dr. Cassie Mecklenburg is the executive director for Sheltering Wings, a domestic abuse center that helps survivors build safety, stability, and independence. Now, Sheltering Wings is here in the Indianapolis area, but I encourage you to look for places, domestic abuse centers in your area that are doing offering these same services. Dr. Cassie has a passion to help employees break the cycle of abuse, believing safety should never be optional. Cassie, thank you so much for joining us today. It is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Cassie 12:29
I really appreciate the invitation. It’s great to be here.

JoDee 12:31
Yeah. So tell us, why is it important for HR professionals to better understand the impact of domestic violence in the workplace?

Cassie 12:42
Domestic violence, it, it’s a concern in every workplace. Each year, domestic violence costs American businesses alone 1.8 billion in lost productivity. That’s, that’s a lot. And 74% of victims report that their abuser has harassed them on the job. And so when you think about the prevalence of domestic abuse that oftentimes is thought about to be an at-home issue, there’s really a tremendous spillover that happens in the workplace. And so employers who address the issue, they can provide real help to victims and prevent the associated risks in the workplace.

JoDee 13:22
Yeah. It’s so hard to hear that 74% are abused at the workplace, too, and I suppose that doesn’t even account for that the abusers could be at work as well, right?

Cassie 13:37
Sure. And sometimes it’s further compounded by that, you’re exactly right, where sometimes an abuser and a victim might be colleagues together, if it’s that type of relationship, and so it can get, it can get really complicated, but employers, they have an ethical and a legal responsibility to ensure the safety of their employees and address domestic violence. It has direct and indirect business benefits. So there’s so many reasons just to start the conversation within the workplace for, for employers.

JoDee 14:08
Well, and I know you’ve talked before about two different philosophies that many employers tend to gravitate to when thinking about domestic abuse. Can you help us understand those perspectives?

Cassie 14:23
Yeah, so when I think about this, I was recently talking with a colleague within another organization, and they were talking about how they have – he was saying that they feel like they address domestic violence in the workplace, because they have a violence in the workplace policy, and as we started talking about it, we were talking about how, really, that concept is about how do we keep violence out of the workplace, which is absolutely appropriate and a policy that should be within the workplaces. But then I pushed a little bit further, and I said, you know, let’s talk about protecting our employees. Do you have a policy that talks about protecting our employees? Not just how to keep out the violence, but what about the policies that address here’s how we can help? And then that started a whole other conversation. Both are absolutely appropriate. I’m not saying not to do one and only do the other, but it’s really helpful when we’re thinking about it from that context, because a lot of times employers will say, oh, yeah, we, you know, we have something, it might not say anything specifically about domestic abuse, but we do address violence in the workplace, and so I think we’re covered. However, that’s just the first step. That’s super helpful, but what we want to do is we want to help employers feel prepared so that they can protect their employees. It’s – you know, they, they might start to see the signs of abuse that maybe are never fully confirmed, but they start to suspect abuse is happening, and so how can we help them navigate when that’s happening? And, you know, I was, I was then further telling this colleague about some of the signs that employers might see. And one of the things that we always talk about is, you know, abuse can happen one time in an instance, but oftentimes in the workplace, it’s not a, it’s not a particular instance that happens, although it can be, but it’s more so looking for those patterns instead of a single, particular behavior. So it’s things like, are there, are there significant changes in a, in a person’s performance? Are there frequent or often unexplained absences or latenesses that are happening for them, or is there a reluctance to leave at the end of the day, or maybe an emotional response to personal calls or texts? So, you know, just being aware of these things, a policy that really thinks about how you can protect employees and how you can help heightens people’s awareness to be looking for those things.

JoDee 16:54
You know, it’s interesting you talk about, or you mentioned about employees who maybe don’t want to leave work at the end of the day. That had, I have to admit, had never crossed my mind before. A couple of years ago, I saw, I don’t know, some kind of training video that was talking about engagement in the workplace and how that… to kind of watch for a sign where maybe for some people, being at work is their safe space. Now you’ve mentioned that 74% of people are still being abused in the workplace, but yeah, that just was a real eye opener for me to even think about that home was not their safe space.

Cassie 17:49
You know, I think when people think about abuse that’s happening in the home, for whatever reason, it’s much more common for people to think about how school is a safe place for the kids, and how oftentimes we’ll look at school, schools to be, to be a safe haven for kids and to help address it. It’s, it’s a much more natural connection for us to make that. Yeah, it’s much more natural for us to make that connection. However, for the adults that are involved, it’s also appropriate for us to think about how the workplace may be that safe space for, for an individual. It’s their opportunity to have stability and structure and to be in, in a caring and a nurturing environment. And so people might be hesitant to leave and, and it’s not always, you know, when we talk about the 74%, it’s not always that they’re being abused at work, but they could receive continual texts or calls from, from the abuser asking them, you know, what are you doing? Who are you with? Making them account for their time, or it might be something where they’re waiting for them and that can – afterwards, you know, to take them home, and that can look like a really chivalrous type behavior of, oh, they really care about you, and so they they’ve come to pick you up and to take you home, how kind of them and, and maybe it is that, maybe it is, but you have to start looking for those patterns, and there might be some other signs in the behavior. Or we’ve had individuals that have reported victims receiving flowers at work. Again, a way that they, that it can look really kind and generous of, of the perpetrator or the abuser who’s sending those, but it’s just an extra reminder, it’s that manipulation for some, where they’re sending it, saying, I know where you work, I’m always thinking of you. And it’s, it kind of turns into that cringe factor side of it, and so just being aware of your employees’ responses in the midst of that, and you know, do they love it, and do they embrace it, and is it something that’s welcome, or do they get something like that? Or do you see some of those tendencies happen, and you start to just feel like, I’m not sure if those are welcome advances toward them, and just being mindful of that.

JoDee 20:10
And what about for supervisors or colleagues who might be hesitant to have a conversation with an employee whom they suspect, or maybe even know is dealing with abuse? How would you recommend they start the conversation?

Cassie 20:27
Yeah, a lot of people will come to us and ask us this very question, because so many times when you think about domestic abuse, it feels like a personal, a home issue, and so from an HR perspective, how do you navigate that in a way that’s appropriate for the workplace and also helps to create that safe environment where you’re not over, you’re not blurring those lines of personal and professional, and, and so we’re mindful of that and careful about it. But really, if you think that one of your employees or coworkers might be a victim, then we encourage an individual to approach them in a private conversation and a private setting where you can communicate their, your concern for them and let them know that you’re here for them and if they need support, you know, say things that you’ve noticed, so not to make generalizations and not to make assumptions about what’s happening. But, you know, you’ve, you’ve probably heard the “See Something, Say Something,” mentality, that concept, and so we encourage people to be very specific, and sometimes that’s something as direct as, you know, I’ve noticed that you’ve worn unseasonable clothing, when it’s been really hot out but you’ve worn a turtleneck or long sleeves, and normally you don’t do that, and so I just, I’m concerned about you. If there’s something that you want to talk about, I want you to know that I’m, I’m an open door and a safe place that you can come to. Or it might be also something like, you know, you, you’ve seemed unusually sad recently, and I’ve noticed that your work productivity has decreased, or you’ve, I’ve noticed that you’ve been distracted, more distracted than normal on this project, and I’m concerned. And so sometimes it’s just opening up that door and letting people know that you’re a safe place to go, to come to, to confide in. And oftentimes survivors will tell us that that first conversation is really important because they’re figuring out if they can trust you, if you’re a safe space, and how much they really are able to disclose and, and so we encourage people to start those conversations in a, in a confidential manner, and allowing them to navigate and to really dictate how much they tell you and to ask questions that come from a place of non-judgment. Again, when a victim is being abused, the underlying cause of all abuse is control, no matter how it manifests itself, whether it’s physical, emotional, sexual, any, any type of abuse, financial abuse, they’re always being controlled. And so what we want to do is we want to empower a survivor to be able to share their story in a way that is comfortable and it’s safe for them. So you know, it’s important to communicate your concern, let them know that you’re here for them, assure them that you and the company are there to help, and ask what, what you can do to ensure their safety. Don’t just make assumptions and say, we’ll do A, B and C and you know, you know, period. But really say, what can we do to ensure your safety? Are you aware of the resources that are available, such as EAP programs that’s really helpful, or local domestic violence agencies, whatever the case is. And then, of course, making sure that you document noticeable incidents, injuries, or unusual behavior. Make sure that you’re tracking that from that HR side is really important.

JoDee 23:59
Yeah. Great advice. And what, what are some other ways that employers, you know, maybe specifically for HR professionals, or just other people in the workforce, or the organizations themselves, some other ways that we might appropriately help employees going through this?

Cassie 24:22
Yeah, so let’s talk about it first from a very specific workplace environment and some of those administrative supports that you can provide, so things like provide time off with job protection. So maybe they need some additional time off or flexibility so that they can go to court. Maybe if they’re at a position where they’re moving, and you know, they need to have that time off to be able to move or, or just appointments to connect with other resources that are available. Be flexible in providing some time off, and with still certainty that they’ll be able to maintain their job. Be open to make changes to personnel information. So maybe that’s information like changing their emergency contacts or possible job transfers, eliminating direct deposits into joint accounts. That’s something that a lot of workplaces don’t think about. But what are those things that an employee – will help keep an employee more safe? Also, I would say one thing to be mindful of, and it doesn’t always elevate to this point, but if a person is ready and planning to leave, one of the things that a workplace needs to be mindful of is that leaving, it’s oftentimes one of the most dangerous times in that person’s relationship, because they’re changing the power dynamics and they’re taking away that element of control themselves from the other person. And so it’s important to help think through a safety plan, if that’s what they feel like is necessary. So can you help them choose a closer parking spot, or even reserve a parking spot for them so it’s closer to the door? Maybe security going back and forth to their car, a change of their office phone number. So really, just thinking through with them, what are some of those elements that are of concern to them, and how can we help mitigate those risks? And then I would flip to more general support, and I would say, you know, always believe their story. So many times, survivors are just not believed. And so we would rather err on the side of belief and then let that unfold as it will, but always start there and reassure them that it’s not their fault and that no one deserves to be abused. And then I would say one of the hardest things, honestly for me, even, to grasp, especially in the beginning of my work here with Sheltering Wings, and that’s to respect their decisions, which sounds so obvious, but I remember when I was going through training about domestic abuse, and I was just diving into this more and learning about it, and I was asked the question, if you had a colleague that was in an extremely dangerous situation, what, what would you do? How would you help them leave? And my first thought was, oh, my goodness, like, do everything I can to wrap my arms around them and to love them and to yank them out of that situation as quickly as possible, and, and to be fair, maybe there’s some times where something like that is maybe helpful, but man, by and large, we’ve got to respect their decisions as adults and help meet them where they’re at, and so sometimes they’re not ready to leave. Sometimes right now is not the safest time to leave. Maybe their, maybe their spouse or their partner has a work engagement somewhere else next week, and they’re going to be out of town and so they need to plan differently and think through those types of things. Or maybe there’s something that’s happening with the kids that if they can just wait until another moment, they can be safe. And so it’s really about meeting them where they’re at and respecting their decisions and offering that non-judgmental support.

JoDee 28:03
I agree, my instinct wants to be to help them immediately, right? Get them out…

Cassie 28:09
Yeah.

JoDee 28:10
…as fast as you can. So. What about prevention? What are some system, systemic ways that the workplace can help prevent abuse before it even starts?

Cassie 28:23
Yeah, I love to talk about this, because we can talk about intervention all day long, and that is so important, and we will always do that because we want to, we want to help make sure that every survivor and every victim knows that help is available. But if we can prevent abuse from happening before it starts, then, I mean, let’s work ourselves out of a job, in that case, with Sheltering Wings, right? I mean, I would love to work ourselves out of a job where we didn’t have to address this. So in the workplace, there’s an opportunity for employers to be a part of the conversation. So I mean, it’s things like equitable and supportive environments. So are you providing equal pay for men and women in the workplace? That, that is a preventative measure for an individual? There are so many people who don’t leave violent situations because they feel like they cannot live independently, they cannot afford it, and so are we contributing by providing equal pay to all of our employees in an appropriate manner, as well as economic supports for families? Are there, do our families have access to concrete economic supports and family work, family-friendly workplace policies that can alleviate some of those financial stresses for parents? You know, I think about paternal leave, not just maternity leave, but paternal leave. And so for, for all parents, so that we’re really looking equally at our families and helping to engage and foster those nurturing environments, not just relying on moms to be that maternal, nurturing voice and, you know, place, position or place in the relationship and the home. But are we encouraging men to step into those roles as well, and offer a place for them to do that? That helps alleviate abuse. One of the things – a little sidebar in that conversation – one of the things a lot of hospitals are doing is they’re encouraging skin to skin contact, not only between the mom and the baby, but they’re also doing that now with dads, and I love that practice because it’s helping to create and foster that nurturing environment right from the very beginning. And so there’s ways that we can even do that in the workplace, to help foster and encourage that. And then engaging in social action. So what are some of those societal efforts that promote societal norms protecting against violence, as well as strengthening household financial security? You know, really supporting affordable housing to be developed and created within the communities, educational opportunities, as well as employment opportunities. What are those policies and systems that we can support that affect the structural determinants of health in a positive way, so that we can help to eliminate and to, or to minimize the risk of domestic abuse?

JoDee 31:20
So helpful. I have to admit, I’m a bit naive about all this. I mean, when I think back about my career, I just wonder of the times where I may have missed this happening to people and didn’t address it, or was not supportive of someone who might have been going through it. I did have one situation, but this was, like, 25 years ago where an employee came to me, and I think she probably came to me as a last resort and saying she was afraid that her spouse was going to show up at work. And I think she was one of those people where it was a safe space for her at work, and then when she got to the point where she thought he might show up, I mean, we, we hired security for a few days until the situation calmed down a bit, but I still wonder, how might I have gone back to her later, or, you know, been a comfort or resource to her too, so.

Cassie 32:35
Well and, and I think we only know what we know, right? And so whether that’s an individual, a colleague, or an employee that discloses themselves what’s happening, but also, as an employer, what can we do to better and differently educate ourselves? And so sometimes, you know, a lot of people just aren’t having these conversations, and I’m so grateful for the opportunity to talk about it with you and, and those who are listening, because just by heightening our awareness might give us that extra ping of, of concern, or, you know, we notice something just a little bit different to say, I don’t know if this is what’s happening and, and maybe it’s not, but to express concern and to create an open door environment where people feel safe to disclose it can be a game changer. Whether or not they’re experiencing domestic abuse, there might be something else that’s happening, and so this is not just about helping to alleviate domestic abuse and to intervene when that happens, although that’s the focus of our conversation, by just being good humans and letting people know that we care about them, can open the door for just creating a community of support in a completely different way than what we we’ve done before. And so it’s, it’s just helpful to have these types of conversations because similarly, even being in this work, sometimes I’ll talk with someone and they’ll ask me about a situation and I’ll say, I don’t know, I don’t know, but let’s talk through ways you can talk to them to maybe uncover that a little bit more.

JoDee 34:11
Cassie, I, you know, I mentioned in your introduction that you were the executive director of Sheltering Wings here in Indianapolis, but how might people across the country, or even in other parts of the world find Sheltering Wings type groups where they can go and find support?

Cassie 34:34
Sure, so nationally, here in the United States, there’s this wonderful website, domesticshelters.org, and so you can put your zip code in, and you can find domestic violence shelters, service providers. So not everyone needs emergency housing that’s experiencing abuse, but sometimes they just need a place to talk to, maybe help with the protective order, or even just to navigate, hey, this is what I’m experiencing, is this abuse, is it not, because sometimes, individually, it’s hard for us to know that. So having safe places to talk to, so domesticshelters.org is a great resource to reach out to nationally. And then I would also say shelteringwings.org, which is our website, there are some really good resources no matter where you’re from, conversation starters to help individuals that might confirm or suspect that abuse is happening with someone, resources for safety planning whether you’re in the workplace, the church, or it’s your friend or neighbor. There’s a lot of options and resources on our website that people can connect to. We just never want someone to feel like they’re having to navigate this by themselves.

JoDee 35:43
And you know, a question we ask all of our guests is, when was your last JoyPowered® moment at work? Obviously, we’re talking about a difficult subject today, but you’re doing so much good in the world to help others. Tell us about a JoyPowered® moment for you.

Cassie 36:06
Yeah, so it happened not too long ago with the start of school. We had our kiddos who were going into school – so our shelter, we can house up to 80 women, men, and children that are escaping abuse, and so more than half of our family, or half of our residents at any given time are kids, and so in the month of August, there’s this huge shift as kids are going back to school. And I was talking to a mom about how they were transitioning. They were about one or two weeks into it, and as we’re talking about the start of school, her son, who is… he’s a freshman in high school, I think, he comes running up and he says, “Cassie, Cassie. They asked about me. They asked about me. I think I’m going to be on the team.” And I said, “What? What are we talking about here?” And he said, “Basketball. I think I’m going to make the team. The coaches asked about me.” That moment was just so encouraging to me, because I hope that he makes the team, but at the end of the day, when we were having that conversation, what he was telling me is that he had coaches that made him feel seen and valuable, and that just meant the world to him, and it just warmed my heart in that moment, and I, we, you know, we just sat down and we talked about it, and he talked about some of the skills training that he’s doing and ways that his coaches had recognized him, and so it was just really fun to have that conversation with him. And you know, it’s great, especially in this kind of environment, when we can talk about what the quote, unquote, “normal” things of life are, and not have to be specifically talking about what they’re escaping, or, you know, what they’re coming from, but it was something that he was just really excited about in the future, and so that, it brought me so much joy to have that fun conversation with this kid.

JoDee 37:53
I love it. I love it. Thank you for sharing that with us. And one more question, if our listeners would like to reach out to you or get support or find more resources, what’s the best way to get ahold of you?

Cassie 38:11
Yeah. So the two best ways to reach out to me are through our website, shelteringwings.org, and so as a general resource, that’s, that’s a great way to connect with me, or, more personally, they can reach me on LinkedIn simply by searching Cassie Mecklenburg.

JoDee 38:29
And that Cassie is, C, A, S, S, I, E.

Cassie 38:33
Correct. Yeah.

JoDee 38:34
Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing some really fantastic advice with all of us.

Cassie 38:43
Oh, thank you so much for having me and allowing us to have this conversation.

JoDee 38:47
Thank you.

Susan 38:48
JoDee, we have a listener question. Remember, we welcome questions anytime from our listeners, so please don’t hesitate to reach out. Here it is. “How do you get your manager to provide you with specific feedback? I only ever get the general ‘thank you’ or ‘great job,’ and no specifics. I genuinely want to improve, but not sure what I need to improve on or how to grow in my in my role.”

JoDee 39:14
Yeah, well, I think I have a relatively simple answer to this question. That is asking for more specific feedback, right? First off, I think most of us can ask for feedback more often, period, right? Just not waiting for someone to say “thank you” or “great job,” but going to people and saying, hey, you know, I’d love to have some feedback on my performance or that interaction or that meeting or that presentation, but then even be very specific about what you’re asking for, like, “I’m really working on my timeliness. What do you – what have you observed?” or “I’m really working on reducing the number of times I say ums and ahs. Can you watch for this for me?” So even asking for it up front, so that they’re specifically watching for those things. The more specific questions that we ask people, the more likely they are to be specific. So, you know, “How did, how did I do in that presentation you just observed?” maybe again, specifically, I’m really working on my ums and ahs, or I’ve really focused a lot more time on my PowerPoint slides, so I, I want you, you know, I want your feedback on the slides themselves, were there too many, were there not enough, were my slides too busy, were they, did they provide you with the information you needed. So take responsibility really is what I’m saying, is don’t wait for someone else to take the responsibility to give you that information. Take responsibility to ask for it.

Susan 41:20
Good advice.

JoDee 41:22
In our in the news section today, in a Summer 2024 study, Preply set out to test a hypothesis that companies offering more unusual benefits than industry standards would see lower employee turnover rates and higher gross profit margins. In their study, the top 10 companies did, in fact, have lower employee turnover rates and higher gross profit margins on average. So they didn’t, that didn’t always hit everyone, but on average, they were high. So what were, who were some of those companies, and what were some of those results? Well, you might not be surprised – at least, I wasn’t – to find that X, formerly known as Twitter, topped the charts as the number one ranked company for the most unusual employee benefits. Patagonia led in benefits related to employees’ human rights and social responsibilities. And Clif Bar Company was ranked top for benefits that promoted employee health and wellness. Susan, tell us about some of the top 15 most unusual benefits.

Susan 42:46
I find these very innovative. Number one, baby milk shipping. So important. Baby bonding products like diapers, money for new babies, gift certificates, cleaning services when you have a new baby. I love all of those.

JoDee 43:01
Yeah, Meta has a rooftop nature park, so that was an unusual one. And some of the companies have an on-site mall, a rock climbing wall, and some had an on-site spa. That would be my favorite.

Susan 43:19
Me too. Me too. But now, of course, we’ve heard of organizations having unlimited vacation. And a global week of rest. Now, what I like about that is everybody is off globally with the company during that week, and you’re expected not to be contacting one another, not doing work. It’s mandated. So what a wonderful way to get people to really unplug. Another one is language classes in more than 50 languages, and that’s Preply. I think that’s so smart, so you’ll be able to communicate with each other better and with people across the globe.

JoDee 43:54
Right, right. Now, one company has the opportunity to join Spotify at concerts and festivals around the world, but that company happened to be Spotify.

Susan 44:07
Makes it easier to offer.

JoDee 44:09
And Dropbox offers up to $5,000 a year on wellness, caregiver support, productivity, ergonomics, learning, groceries, and more. And then a few of them also had on-site beauty salons and car washes.

Susan 44:28
Love it.

JoDee 44:29
One – this was number 20 on the list, but HubSpot offers a five year sabbatical. Now, it didn’t say if that was paid or unpaid. I’m going to assume maybe it’s unpaid, but that’s still a pretty cool benefit.

Susan 44:46
It could be attractive to the right person.

JoDee 44:48
Right. Now, Zoom came in first place with Clif Bar and Company for the lowest employee turnover rate at just 3% and they also came in eighth place for the most unusual benefits offered, suggesting some correlation between their benefits and employee satisfaction. Some of Zoom’s benefits included electric vehicle reimbursement, pet insurance, financial planning, coaching, and adoption assistance. So do your current benefits reflect the company’s values and cultures? You might talk to your employees about their lives, goals, and what’s important to them, or what’s something you could reasonably add to your benefits program to differentiate yourselves from the competition. So thanks for listening today. Tune in next time and make it a JoyPowered® day.

Susan 45:48
Thank you. If you liked the show, please tell a few friends about us and let us know what you thought by leaving us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening right now. Become a JoyPowered® member to get extras like early access to episodes, video versions of the episodes, bonus episodes, and even more. Learn more at patreon.com/joypowered. You spell Patreon, P, A, T, R, E, O, N, so it’s patreon.com/joypowered. You can find more information on our podcast, books, blogs, and more at getjoypowered.com. We’re @joypowered on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, and you can email us via joypowered@gmail.com Make it a JoyPowered® day.