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Kerrie 00:01
At least take the time to think about the yes before you make no your default answer.

JoDee 00:10
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help HR and business leaders embrace joy in the workplace. I’m JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, an HR consulting and talent development firm, and with me is my dear friend and co-host, Susan White, owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, also an HR consulting practice.

JoDee 00:37
We’re diving into something that I think can make a huge difference in both your personal and professional life: creating a culture of growth and development within yourself. Whether you’re looking to advance in your career, become more self-aware, or just feel more fulfilled, the key to unlocking that potential often lies in our own mindset, specifically in saying yes to learning opportunities and adventures. The first step to fostering a culture of growth is recognizing that learning is not a one-time event but a lifelong process. The world around us is constantly changing, and we are never done evolving. Embracing this mindset opens the door to new possibilities and experiences. It’s about seeing every challenge and even every setback as an opportunity to learn something new. And while it can be tempting to stay in our comfort zone, that’s not when growth happens. Growth occurs when you step into the unknown, when you say yes to new ideas, new experiences, and even new relationships. The beauty of this is the personal growth doesn’t always have to be a big leap. It can be as simple as saying yes to attending a workshop, picking up a new hobby, or taking on a project that stretches our skills. These seemingly small decisions add up over time, and we can start to notice how they shift our perspective and boost our confidence, plus each new experience you embrace adds a layer of resilience, helping you bounce back faster from challenges. But creating a culture of growth isn’t just about saying yes to opportunities for ourselves. It’s about fostering an environment, whether that’s in our workplace, with our family, with our friends, or any place where others feel encouraged to pursue growth as well. When you champion the idea of lifelong learning, you inspire others to do the same, and this ripple effect can create a collective energy that makes everyone more engaged, more motivated, and more willing to take risks and learn from their mistakes. So today I challenge you to think about the opportunities you might be overlooking where you can say yes to new learning experiences or adventures. What might happen if you let go of fear of failure and embrace the chance to grow? The adventure of personal growth is always open to us when we’re ready to take the first step. Susan, in what areas have you said yes, maybe throughout your career, in your personal life, or even in retirement?

Susan 03:54
I look back on my career, and I think about the times I had opportunities to apply for bigger jobs, or I got tapped on the shoulder and asked to do more responsibilities or take on a higher level or whatever. And I can remember most of the time I said a very reluctant yes. Like, you know, I can try it. I’m not sure I can do it. Let me, let me see how I do. But I can think of one time I kept saying no. I just said no. And I said no because I — it was just too big of a job, but I just thought there’s no way I’d be successful, until I realized that no wasn’t the right answer. I had to say yes. It was like a “yes or else” type of thing. And you know, it was probably one of the best learning experience I’ve ever had. I look back at all the times I said yes, most of the time, they were fun and they were interesting, and the times they weren’t, I still grew, I still learned. I still, to this day, probably benefit from some of those tough, tough times I said yes when I was reluctant to do it. So, very true in my career. I would tell you now in my personal, semi-retirement life that I’m in, I — when I first started practicing HR consulting, I did not know what I didn’t know, and I didn’t know really how to do it. So I made a commitment to myself that first year, I was going to say yes to as many things as I humanly could do, and I’m so glad I did, because over that first year, year and a half, I learned what I like to do, I learned what I didn’t like to do in consulting, and I, it just helped me really get much more laser focused. So I do think that this topic today is important. I think we have to sometimes push ourselves to get that yes out, and we’re going to learn whether it’s a pleasant experience or not. We’re going to learn. JoDee, how about you? Tell us about your, your yeses.

JoDee 05:37
Yeah. Well, I, a few big moments in my life when I look back in my career, specifically, you know, I was an auditor at a CPA firm for nine years, and really had a great career working with many, many dear friends that, you know, were colleagues, but also became our social friends, and I had an opportunity with a client to go and work for them, and the firm did everything they could to keep me and, you know, offered me more money, and they offered me a promotion, and I said yes to the client and not the opportunity to stay. Now, interestingly, a year later, I was back at the firm, but I was in a different role, which really when I, when I left the firm, I had an opportunity to be a CFO, but also responsible for HR, and I felt like HR was the right move for me. So even though I went back to the firm a year later, it really started my career in HR, to some extent, too, and I think led me to where I am, so that was…

Susan 07:02
That was an important, a very important yes.

JoDee 07:04
Yeah.

Susan 07:05
Right?

JoDee 07:05
Yeah.

Susan 07:05
How instrumental that’s been in your life. Wow.

JoDee 07:08
Yeah. I think too, even just a couple of weeks ago, some high school girlfriends of mine called me and asked me if I wanted to go on a cruise with them, and I said, “Sure,” and they said, “Well, the money is due tomorrow.”

Susan 07:25
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

JoDee 07:27
And I was thinking that specifically, I think they called me because they knew I was someone who would say yes, right? And I just, like, I was talking to another high school friend of mine not too long ago, who was — lives in Indiana, but was flying to New Orleans to take a sewing class for a week, and I just thought — and she’s retired, and just had wanted to get back into sewing, and took this class. And so I just think I’ve heard several people recently say yes to some fun opportunities, so I thought this would be a fun topic.

Susan 08:13
So where you going to go on your cruise? Probably didn’t even ask. You just said yes.

JoDee 08:17
I did say yes at first, and I didn’t know. They did know the dates, but I didn’t know the cruise line or where we were going.

Susan 08:27
You said yes first. That doesn’t surprise me. Good for you. Yeah.

JoDee 08:31
Thankfully, I’m very happy with where we’re going, so.

Susan 08:35
Good, it’ll be very fun.

JoDee 08:36
Yeah. But as I was thinking about this topic, I invited a friend to join this today, who is someone who I also see as saying yes to new things, and her name is Kerrie Weinzapfel. She’s the Chief Operating Officer for a law firm based in Evansville, Indiana. She oversees all business office functions, including accounting, HR, marketing and IT, and Kerrie and I worked together over 20 years ago at that first CPA firm where I worked. Kerrie, you and I were talking recently about your upcoming retirement and your goals, and you said something that really piqued my curiosity when you talked about the idea of continuing to grow and learn, no matter our age. And you know, I totally buy into all of that too, but tell our listeners more about what we were talking about that day.

Kerrie 09:44
So, this thought really solidified in my mind as my husband and I were making our retirement decisions. Paul had already announced his retirement, which was supposed to be, which was in February of 2024, and I wanted that, you know, one last meeting with the financial advisor just to make sure everything was financially on schedule before I announced my date, and as I drove to the meeting, there was this little thought in the back of my mind that was, “I kind of hope he says we’re not ready.” And that was so weird, because I’m a CPA, right? I mean, I knew that we were ready. I crunched the numbers. So we go into the meeting and our advisor is assuring us that everything is on target, and instead of becoming more relaxed about it, I’m becoming more anxious as the meeting goes on, and on the drive home, I have, like, a minor anxiety attack, and I came to the conclusion that I was not ready, and this totally shocked my system and, and was not the happiest of times when we had what we call a budget committee meeting at our house, and I had to tell Paul, “I think I need a little delay,” and it really forced me to think about, Why did I feel this way? I love my husband. We have a wonderful life. We’re financially ready. So why am I panicking about this? And I spent a lot of time thinking about it and realized that I had spent all the time thinking about the financial side of retirement, but I hadn’t come to any, I hadn’t really spent any time thinking about the emotional or the brain side of retirement. And I think my worry was, what was I going to do in retirement? And I don’t mean, like, what was I going to do every day? Like, we have family and friends and we travel, so I knew what that we wouldn’t just sit around and be idle. But what was I going to do? What, what was my plan for staying challenged? I’m the kind of person, my brain never shuts off. I have a notebook next to my bed, because I’ll wake up in the middle of the night, and I have, in my sleep, solved some family problem or, or problem at work. And so I get a lot of joy from problem solving, from moving projects forward. And I think I was worried, where was I going to get that satisfaction in my life after retirement.

Susan 12:01
So here we are in November of 2024. Have you retired, or are you — have you set the date for it?

Kerrie 12:06
I have five more days. I retire on Friday.

Susan 12:09
Lucky us to get you five days from the from the big R, wonderful. So, so what — So, what have you figured out that you’re going to do six days from now? So, have you made any plans?

Kerrie 12:22
Yes, we have lots of plans. We — one of the things that I’m going to do, because I want this challenge. You know, I used to blog for a very short time. My dad got sick, and it was just, like, overwhelmed me and I couldn’t do it anymore, so I’m going to pick up that blog. But my blog was called My 52 To Do because every week I wanted to do something different, and so I’m challenging myself. I’m going to pick that up. I’m going to start doing something new and different every week, and I’m going to blog about it.

Susan 12:57
I love it.

Kerrie 12:58
Yeah.

Susan 12:59
What a, what a great way to continue growing and probably learning too, right?

Kerrie 13:04
I hope so.

JoDee 13:05
And Kerrie, have, did you have some moments when you look back over your career or just your personal life when you said no to things that maybe you regret or wish maybe you can say yes to now?

Kerrie 13:22
Sure. I mean, there’s one that comes to my mind every time somebody talks about regrets. In — very early in our careers, we have some friends who live in Europe, and they approached us with the idea of doing a house swap for a year. And I really, to be honest, I — my initial answer was no, because the — and there were so many becauses, right? We have jobs. How are we going to find jobs there? What would happen if we left jobs we loved? Would we be able to find a job when we came back? And I have regretted that decision for the rest of my life, because if you really think about it, there would have been so many ways we could have made it happen. We could have asked our employers for a leave of absence. We could have found new jobs when we came back. I mean, what employer wouldn’t love to hire somebody who was fluent in a new language or had worked in business in Europe? It’s a global world, right? And I, we could have brought those skills back. And so I have always regretted that we did not say yes to that opportunity, or at least explore that opportunity in more detail before saying no.

JoDee 14:27
Yeah.

Susan 14:28
Well, that’s fair. How about yes? Kerrie, in your career or in life, when have you said yes, and what kind of a difference has that made for you?

Kerrie 14:35
Again, this is an example from my personal life, but I do think it translates to my career as well. It was about 10 years ago. We were at a family event, and my husband kind of yelled across the room, “Hey, Kerrie, would you like to go on a backpacking trip?” and to be — and I said yes, kind of like in a distracted manner, not really realizing what I had just committed to. I was 47, I had never backpacked before. I’m not — at that time wasn’t super outdoorsy. I had no gear. Can’t say I was the most physically fit person at that age. But I did say yes. And so as the time got closer to go, you know, we go buy the equipment, I start training, and there were many times along the way where I could have put the brakes on that, and I didn’t. I just kept saying yes, and I am so glad I did, because that backpacking trip exposed me to a whole different world out there, something that I really knew nothing about, and just taught me that I can accomplish so much more physically than I ever realized I could. But also I think that time away, really time out in nature, time disconnected from technology, is so good for a person. There’s all — so many studies that talk about how being disconnected lets you free your mind, helps you make better decisions. And I also think it was good for the people I work with, because when I’m backpacking, it’s not possible to reach me. And so people have, people get the opportunity to step up where maybe I would have done those things before. So other people had the opportunities to step up, grow in their careers as well. And I don’t think any business is healthy when you are so reliant on someone… you know, the proverbial — anybody could hit, could get hit by the proverbial bus, right?

Susan 16:26
Right.

Kerrie 16:26
So it was a great opportunity for people at work to learn things that I do, that other people needed to know too so we had some duplication of knowledge.

Susan 16:34
Yeah, I have to say I bet that was an amazing experience, although it makes the house swap look a lot easier to me.

JoDee 16:39
Yeah. Agree, Agree. And Kerrie, as you talk about others and the importance of maybe getting away from technology or whatever it is we’re stuck on in our lives, what advice do you have for our listeners and for people in their careers, or just in their lives, to saying yes?

Kerrie 17:05
I think it’s important to approach life — or at least for me — to approach life not from a “no, because…” perspective, but from a “yes, and here’s how.” Now, some decisions should be no. They’re not right for you, or it’s not the right time in your life. I mean, that’s — no can be the right answer, but I think it’s important to at least take the time to think about is no the right answer or, or is it something that you really would enjoy doing, or just really speaks to you, and then try to find a way to say “yes, and here’s how.” You know, yes, I can take on that project, even though my plate is full, and here’s how I’m going to delegate work to someone else so that I can free up my schedule. Yes, I’m going to apply for that promotion or that new job, even though maybe my skills aren’t perfect, but here’s how I’m going to learn new skills, or here are the skills that I bring to it that would benefit the, you know, the position or the employer. I just think, at least take the time to think about the yes before you make no your default answer.

Susan 18:07
I think that is great advice. Really is. Have you been able to encourage others around you to start thinking about being “yes, and here’s how I’m going to do it.”?

Kerrie 18:16
You know, as my career comes to a close, I hope that people I worked with would say that my example of saying yes inspired them. I hope that’s what people would say about me. I think my family, for sure, would say — my kids have gone on to do some pretty brave things, and I think part of that came from watching me and their dad say yes to things, and we’ve always been really involved in the community or, you know, volunteering for things. And I think that’s an example where saying yes, was helpful to others, and, and I hope it inspired other people to do that as well.

Susan 18:50
Bet it has been, yeah.

JoDee 18:53
So Kerrie, what are your plans for post-retirement and in 2025?

Kerrie 19:01
Yeah. So I’m gonna restart my blog. And you know, I — not all those things, the 52 things have to be epic. I hope some are, but some can be simple things, trying out a restaurant that’s new, or visiting a local place that I’ve never been before, or I’d really like to shadow some people in different careers, things I’ve never been exposed to before. So if you have any ideas, or if listeners do, reach out, because I’d love suggestions on things to do. But the biggest thing is, remember the biggest regret about not doing the house swap? This isn’t exactly a house swap, but we are going to go live in Europe for three months, and so I hope when I come back to the States next summer, I’m fluent in a new language.

JoDee 19:48
That’s so exciting.

Kerrie 19:50
Yeah, we’re very excited.

JoDee 19:52
So Kerrie, so our listeners can follow you and learn more about what you’re saying yes to, how can our listeners follow you?

Kerrie 20:01
So my blog is my52todo.com, so hopefully I’ll start posting soon. My retirement date is Friday, so I hope to start pushing out blogs next week. So hopefully you’ll see that up, and you can always email me. It’s pretty easy. Kerrie Weinzapfel at gmail dot com.

JoDee 20:21
You better — we’ll put that in our show notes, but you better spell that out too.

Kerrie 20:25
Sure. K,E, R, R, I, E, W, E, I, N, Z, A, P, F, E, L at gmail dot com.

JoDee 20:35
Nice. Love it.

Susan 20:36
That’s great. And so Kerrie, before we let you go, we do ask all of our guests a JoyPowered® question. Can you share with us any JoyPowered® moment that you’ve experienced?

Kerrie 20:47
Here’s what I would say is what’s making me really joy filled right now at work, and it’s, I mean, it’s part of the fact that I’m retiring, but it’s that we’ve hired the person who’s going to be taking on a lot of my responsibilities, and in training him, I get a lot of joy in, first of all, exposing someone to something new that they’ve not necessarily done before, and seeing that, you know, you can just tell in someone’s face when they get it, when, and when they feel a sense of accomplishment, accomplishment, when they’ve accomplished something that they’ve never done before, but also in seeing my coworkers interact with him, because I’ve always thought this is a fantastic place to work. I work with people that aren’t just my coworkers. They’re my friends, they’re my work family. But in seeing them embrace him and seeing him interact with them, it just really has given me even more appreciation for the career I’ve had and the fact that somebody else now gets to come and work at this really wonderful place.

Susan 21:48
Oh, what a wonderful legacy and what a wonderful transition. Thank you for sharing.

Kerrie 21:52
Thanks.

JoDee 21:53
I agree. Thanks for joining us, Kerrie.

Kerrie 21:55
Thanks for having me.

Susan 21:57
JoDee, our listener question today is, our listener struggles with the idea of preaching integrity while looking for a job elsewhere. She loves the many people that she works with, and feels it’s similar to cheating by looking for a job at work, so she left the job she was in before she started looking for a job. She feels as though looking while you’re employed somewhere where she has established trust just felt really too disingenuous to her. Our listener recognizes that she’s in the minority, and she, but she stands by her decision, recognizing that it could be a bit naive on her part. She’s asking, JoDee, if you have any pearls of wisdom you could share with her and others who might feel that way.

JoDee 22:42
Yeah, I thought this was a very interesting question, and my, as I was thinking about my answer, my head kind of went all the way around. I appreciate what she’s doing, but I’ll admit I have done both of those. I have left a job where I just really wasn’t happy, and I looked for a job afterwards, and — but I also have been involved in a job search while I had a job too, and I don’t think… I don’t know, maybe I’m making excuses for this, but I do feel like, I mean, I wouldn’t, I didn’t really feel like I was cheating. I actually, I recommend to people all the time that if you’re not happy in a role, to look for something else and interview other places, because I think some people find something better for them at another company, and some people realize how lucky they are of what they have. And I actually know someone who just went through that, who had a couple of job offers, and in the end, turned them down and stayed where he was, because it made him appreciate what he had in his own role. So I think that can actually be good for you to explore some of that in the job. You know, I think if you’re lying about it, or even taking off time to interview, if you’re making up lies about that, that is disingenuous and dishonest. But I think you can also say, “I have an appointment this afternoon and I won’t be at work” either. So I, you know, I guess I don’t feel that strongly either way. I think it’s, you know, we used to say never quit your job until you had a new one, and that’s not always the case anymore these days. But what do you think, Susan?

Susan 24:53
I feel like I have a really high moral compass on most things. I don’t have any qualms at all about somebody looking for a job while they’re employed somewhere. I do believe that you owe it to your employer every day that you’re paid to bring your A game. I really do believe that, but you’re welcome to take vacation day, you’re welcome for, you know, take comp time off, if that’s, you know, appropriate in your workplace. Don’t lie about where you’re going, but you don’t have to offer it up. So I, I, you know, I, I guess I, this person who has this feeling about cheating on the current employer, you know, I kind of admire you for feeling that way, but I don’t share it.

JoDee 25:30
Yeah, I agree. In our in the news segment today, a new study from Deloitte revealed that many employees are seeking more corporate learning and development opportunities. The findings highlight that 87% of workers view human skills such as adaptability, leadership, and communication as essential for career growth. I thought 87% was a pretty high number for anything.

Susan 26:03
I agree.

JoDee 26:04
And despite the strong demand for these so-called “soft skills,” which… I don’t really like that term, “soft skills,” but that’s what Deloitte called them, only about half of the workers believe that their employers prioritize human-centric qualities over technical abilities. The study also shows that nearly every respondent, or 95%, consider human skills to be timeless and consistently important. However, companies overlook the development of these soft skills do so at their own risk, and 94% of respondents express concern that future generations may lack the human skills necessary to thrive in the workforce, which, of course, makes this training and development even more important. So.

Susan 27:07
Yeah, I think now I’m 100% concerned.

JoDee 27:10
Right.

Susan 27:11
Right, wow.

JoDee 27:14
Well, thanks for listening today. Please tune in next time and make it a JoyPowered® day.

Susan 27:21
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