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MeChelle Callen (00:02)
Start to recognize when you use the word “just,” take a pause and then re-state that, that sentence, if you will, and don’t replace “just” with anything. We don’t need another qualifier.

JoDee Curtis (00:14)
And when we lead with what makes us come alive, we not only bring more of ourselves to work, but we can invite others to do the same.

Kerrie Weinzapfel (00:25)
while you can’t always control the situation or the timing, you can control how you let it impact you, how you react to it, and how you use the situation to change your life going forward.

JoDee Curtis (00:41)
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help HR and business leaders embrace joy in the workplace. I’m JoDee Curtis, owner of Purple Ink, an HR consulting and talent development firm.

With me is my dear friend and co-host, Susan White, owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, an HR consulting practice. Our topic today is Joy@Work.

The JoyPowered® philosophy was created with the idea that we should all find joy in our work. When I wrote the original JoyPowered® book and we later created this podcast, it was, as we always mention in our intro, to help HR and business leaders embrace joy in the workplace. This philosophy may be a radical shift for some organizations’ leaders and/or their employees who think of work as a place to go where you can make the most amount of money with the least amount of effort.

Although my career has not been perfect, I have found success, gratitude, and joy at every stage of my career. When I found that lacking, I went looking for more. Sometimes that was a change in an internal role and in others, I found it at a new employer. I have since co-authored books called “The JoyPowered® Family,” “The JoyPowered® Team,” which Susan and I and some others co-authored, “The JoyPowered® Organization,” and “JoyPowered® Networking.”

This year in 2025, I asked five other female leaders, professionals, and thought leaders to co-author a book with me called “Joy@Work: When Women Lead.” These women have lived through the highs and lows of organizational life. They share their stories, not from the mountaintop of perfection, but from the trenches of real life where burnout is a real threat and where workplace joy requires intention, courage, and often a mindset shift. In the book, you will find out why these authors view joy at work as attainable and not a contradiction, or at best, a luxury reserved for the fortunate few.

In a world of looming deadlines, overflowing inboxes, and shifting workplace dynamics, joy can feel like the first thing sacrificed in the name of productivity or professionalism. So what if joy is not an elusive reward for climbing the corporate ladder or securing a dream job, but instead a powerful force we can cultivate, choose, and protect, no matter our role or title? And I’ll tell you, it doesn’t just happen on its own. And we can’t expect to give joy to others or to receive joy from someone else. We have to discover it. We have to grab a hold of it and we have to keep choosing it.

The power of language also takes center stage. One author explores how the simple word “just” can limit our identity and impact. “I’m just an HR professional,” or “I just manage a small team,” for example. Words shape our experience and by dropping the “just,” we step more fully into our worth. We claim our place and that claiming, that declaration is a part of what fuels our joy. Finally, this book does not shy away from the hard truth. Sometimes joy can’t be found within the walls of our current employer.

Sometimes the bravest act of all is deciding to walk away from what no longer aligns with who we are. Whether it’s changing roles, switching companies, or launching something entirely new, finding joy at work may mean forging a new path. And that’s not failure, that’s freedom. Reading this book is like sitting down with a circle of wise, honest, and hopeful friends.

These women don’t hand out prescriptions or pretend that joy is always easy. What they offer instead is possibility and permission. They show us that joy at work is not a myth, it’s a mindset. One that can be built one choice at a time.

And today we will hear from three of the authors, including myself, about the advice they share in the book. And then we will have part two in a later episode with the other three.

With us today is MeChelle Callen. MeChelle is an author, a keynote speaker, and a coach. Thanks for joining us today, MeChelle.

MeChelle Callen (06:01)
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate the opportunity to talk a little bit more about the book.

JoDee Curtis (06:07)
Yeah, thank you. Well, MeChelle, how did you choose your topic for the book?

MeChelle Callen (06:15)
Interesting story with that. I have always been so envious of people who write books. And so it’s always been on my bucket list to be an author and to write. And so when I was telling friends about it, they were like, that’s so cool. You’re writing a book. And I caught myself saying, well, I’m just writing a chapter. And as soon as those words were out of my mouth, all the pride and joy I had felt literally went, aw.

And I thought in that moment, why did I just do that? Why did I negate my accomplishment and what I was doing? And I took not only that joy away from me that I was feeling, but also the person I was with who was ready to celebrate was kind of like, what do I say now? And then she actually said to me, well, that’s awesome. I don’t even know if I could write a chapter.

And that was like a light bulb moment for me. I had been thinking about other topics, but in that moment I thought how important it was not to diminish my accomplishments and my led me on this quest with that word “just” and how we use limiting words and how it limits us in our power, in our influence, and how important words are. We always say words matter, but in this case, words matter. And what we say to ourselves and what we say to each other really matters.

Susan White (07:45)
Wow, I have often thought about that as a woman in the world of work, that my style early on was to say things like, now, I know you know more than I do, or I know your experience may be greater than mine, or call me crazy, but have you ever thought of… All of those self-deprecating things, they’re diluting the effectiveness of my ability to influence. So good for you to remind us of that. And sometimes we think we’re trying to be not so proud, or so that we don’t come off as a braggart. Well, you know what? We need to shine. We need to let our light shine. So yay for you. So MeChelle, if you had to describe the chapter in this book that you wrote in just a few sentences, how would you describe it?

MeChelle Callen (08:27)
I’d say that this chapter is really a rally cry for every woman who’s ever been told you’re too much, you’re too boisterous, you’re too loud, or has felt like, I need to quiet myself a little, I need to not say too much, I need to start my sentences with, hey, call me crazy, but…, to your point, Susan. So I think this chapter is really a rally cry to women to not make ourselves small, to find that joy in being powerful, in having… we all have purpose and what we bring to the table matters. And so really embracing that concept and really fully being our authentic self unapologetically.

JoDee Curtis (09:16)
For both of you really, because I do the same thing. Why do you think women do that? Because I would say, disagree with me if you want, that women do that much more often than men. Why do you think that happens?

Susan White (09:35)
I personally, I think you’re right. So I don’t disagree with you there. I think that we are so concerned about how other people are gonna feel and how they’re gonna react that we get in our heads about we don’t wanna come off as too egomaniac or anything like that. I don’t think men think about it as much. Forgive me all our men listeners, no disrespect here, but I think you are more comfortable in your own skin when it relates to the world of work.

JoDee Curtis (10:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

MeChelle Callen (10:03)
You know, as I talked with a lot of women, because once I latched onto this concept and thinking about this for myself, I really started having conversations with a lot of women. Every time I would talk to a woman, I’d say, hey, let me talk to you a little bit about this. The other thing we talked about is how much this has been a part of how we were, for some of us, how we were raised. To be quieter, to not make ourselves too big, so to speak.

And so some of those conversations, you know, I talk in the book about being told that my laugh was not attractive and I should, like, lower the way I laughed and be a little quieter in my laugh. And so as you begin to hear these things, right, as a child, you begin to think those are your truth. I think part of it is, this, and, and that’s the one thing I’ll say too. I am becoming so mindful of it. I stop myself, I correct myself and I’ll even say to someone I should not have used that, that word. That’s the only way I think we, we learn to unlearn what we’ve, what we’ve demonstrated. But I do think there’s a piece of it that has to do with how we’re raised and that we are taught more to be more humble maybe or a little quieter.

JoDee Curtis (11:07)
MeChelle, why do you think this topic is important for our listeners and the book readers to understand this?

MeChelle Callen (11:32)
I think there’s a couple of reasons. One of the reasons is I think now more than ever, we really need to hear all voices and we need to hear all voices without fear of or intimidation of what they want to share, what they want to bring to the table and their ideas. I think right now it’s so important that we have those diverse voices. And I think to Susan’s point earlier, while I’m talking about this and in the chapter “When Women Lead,” it’s really very focused on women. I also believe it’s really important that men understand, too, the importance of this conversation for a couple reasons.

Men generally have some woman in their life, whether it’s their mom, a spouse, a child, an aunt, a sister, whatever that looks like. I think we all have these families and it’s important to understand a different perspective. I was talking to one gentleman. He said, I never thought about this and now I’m listening to my daughters and I’m starting to say, hey, you’re not just lucky, you’re prepared and ready for when the opportunity presents itself. So I, I, I believe it’s important for everyone to hear this right now and to be able to step into their power in a world that needs to hear diverse voices and needs to hear everybody’s idea and all of us to remember our purpose. Because I believe we all have a purpose. That’s why we are on this earth and in this time. This is our time for our purpose and not to lose sight of that.

Susan White (13:12)
So, MeChelle, could you tell us what would you like our listeners and readers of the book, if they’re lucky enough to read the book, do? What would you like them to do? What are some actions or things that you think specifically outcomes after having kind of, you know, social, had this idea socialized for a while?

MeChelle Callen (13:30)
Yeah, I think one of the main things is to stop minimizing their words and their value. So start to recognize when you use the word “just,” take a pause and then re-state that, that sentence, if you will, and don’t replace “just” with anything. We don’t need another qualifier. We can remove “just” from that, that conversation. Some other things to think about when someone says, what do you think? For instance, if you’re in a meeting and you’re sitting at the table and someone says, hey, what do you think? Sometimes the best thing you can do is replace “I think” with “I recommend.” And just that change, that change of that word can make a difference. So as we start to remove “just” from our vocabulary, as we start to think about ways to say, “I recommend,”

I also talk about how important it is for us to take the seat at the table. And I mean that quite literally. You know, some, sometimes we’re like, where do I sit? What’s the best place for me to sit? How do I sit at this table? And there’s research that says men sit at the table and they put their stuff out and they’re bigger than life. And sometimes we, we sit in this tiny space. So don’t be afraid to take up a little more space physically at the table as well as making sure your thoughts, your ideas are shared.

JoDee Curtis (15:03)
Yeah.

Susan White (15:03)
It makes me think of Sheryl Sandberg, about “Lean In.” We’ve gotta get to the table, we gotta sit at the table, and then we gotta lean into that table. Yeah.

JoDee Curtis (15:08)
Right.

MeChelle Callen (15:13)
Absolutely.

JoDee Curtis (15:13)
That’s right. And MeChelle, how can our listeners reach out to you if they want to learn more about the book or this philosophy or have you speak on this to a group?

MeChelle Callen (15:13)
Sure. Well, they can always connect with me on LinkedIn. It’s always a great way to connect with folks. They can also check out my website at mechellecallen.com. That’s a great way to reach me as well. So both are good.

Susan White (15:40)
MeChelle, would you mind spelling your name? We’re going to have it in our show notes, but just in case there’s a listener who’s driving right now and they want to make sure they can remember it, if you’d spell it for us.

MeChelle Callen (15:48)
Sure, it’s M-E-C-H-E-L-L-E, Callen, C-A-L-L-E-N, dot com.

Susan White (15:59)
Beautiful. And then as you know, we ask every one of our guests a JoyPowered® question. And so our question for you is, what’s one small step that you can do in this area to create more joy at work?

MeChelle Callen (16:14)
I would recommend that you take a moment before you step into the office and remind yourself of who you are. Don’t say, I’m just an employee or I’m just a mid-level leader or I’m just a worker. Step into who I am. I am a mid-level leader. I am a leader in this organization. I am an employee who’s making a difference every day. That would be my recommendation. Get rid of the just and say, I am.

Susan White (16:46)
Beautiful. Thank you.

JoDee Curtis (16:51)
Love it. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your wise words.

MeChelle Callen (16:52)
You’re welcome.

Thank you. It’s been my pleasure.

Susan White (17:02)
So JoDee, I’d love to talk to you about your role in this book. You talk about understanding your superpowers in your chapter. Tell me about that. What are the superpowers? Why do you think it’s important for people to understand what they are and how should they use them?

JoDee Curtis (17:18)
In all of my JoyPowered® books, I love to talk about the importance of understanding your strengths. Now, I’m a big fan of CliftonStrengths, the assessment tool discovered by Gallup. But whether or not you take about the…take the assessment, think it’s about discovering and leaning into your superpower. That — your unique strength or quality that sets you apart and fuels your fulfillment. That might be empathy, creative problem solving, humor, communication skills, whatever that is for you. Your superpower can be the gateway to experiencing more joy. And when we lead with what makes us come alive, we not only bring more of ourselves to work, but we can invite others to do the same.

Susan White (18:15)
Well, that’s great, JoDee. So I know that my number one strength is winning others over. And I do know that I get such a charge out of it. I know that when I connect with somebody, that it energizes me. And so I can imagine that, that energy when I’m in the world of work and I’m meeting new people and it’s just kind of building. Any other examples you have of other people that they have real benefits that they gain from knowing their superpower in whatever business they’re in?

JoDee Curtis (18:48)
Yeah, well, my number one strength is maximizer, which is bringing out the best in others. So or processes even. So I constantly am in tune to thinking about how can we do things better? How can we make things better? How can I help other people be better? Of course, I think part of my strength is also understanding that I can’t, you know, Susan, I’ve got 53 things to help you be better, right? It can lead me to be critical of other people. So I have to remind myself to take it slowly and do it. But I think just knowing that about myself gives me more confidence and to use my strengths in positive ways to apply them in a positive manner to conversations or my interactions too.

Susan White (19:51)
So JoDee, after people read your chapter, what do you hope they will do?

JoDee Curtis (19:56)
Well, I hope they are uplifted and feel empowered to focus on what they do best and to look for more opportunities to do more of it. I think that’s the power of understanding what our superpowers are and how can we utilize them more often. And it’s in doing this that we find ourselves looking forward to going to work and having more fulfillment and enjoyment in our days. And that helps us then to feel good about our accomplishments and to be recognized for our achievements. So I think it’s a circle really when we’re using our strengths more, we’re getting more energized, we’re finding more joy that leads us to using our strengths more again, and then it’s easier to repeat the process.

Susan White (20:53)
That’s beautiful. It really empowers you to get better and better at what you’re doing, enjoying it more. I love that. So JoDee, I know that we hear from a lot of listeners. Just let’s remind anyone if this is the first episode they’ve listened to us, how could they reach you if they wanted to talk more about this chapter, about the book, or about using strengths?

JoDee Curtis (20:58)
Yes. So my email is jodee at purple i n k l l c dot com. Or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. And again, I spell my name J O D E E Curtis.

Susan White (21:33)
That’s great. And of course, as you know, we ask everyone a JoyPowered® question before we let them leave us. So why don’t we just go ahead and ask you, what do you think holds people back from finding joy at work?

JoDee Curtis (21:44)
Well, I think at a basic level, some people don’t even have the expectation that they should be finding joy in their work. You know, I just think maybe they look at it as a place to go to be paid or to accomplish a task. So I think it can be a total mindset of thinking, I’m going to go to work today and I’m going to look for the joy in my interactions, in my tasks, in my accomplishments. And then once they can start celebrating those and seeing the impact they’re having on them, I think that’s where again, it goes back into the cycle of now we look for it, now we expect it, and now we think about creating more of it.

Susan White (22:32)
Gosh, I love that advice. Thank you.

JoDee Curtis (22:34)
Uh-huh.

Now we’ll also hear from Kerrie Weinzapfel. Kerrie recently retired as the chief operating officer of a law firm.

JoDee Curtis (22:45)
Kerrie, thank you so much for joining us today.

Kerrie Weinzapfel (22:49)
Thanks for having me. It’s always good to be with you.

JoDee Curtis (22:52)
And how did you choose your topic for your chapter in the book?

Kerrie Weinzapfel (22:58)
When you and I first talked about the book and about me possibly contributing to the book, I was really heavy into preparation for my retirement. And I think when someone’s about to go through a major life change, they’re often really reflective about their past. And I don’t know, I guess I was just kind of in a nostalgic mood, really thinking about my career and people I had worked with. And at some point somebody asked me about my career and I was kind of walking them through the progression. And it occurred to me that two of the three times that I changed jobs, it was not a situation that I would have picked. But I’m, you know, that thing about if you’re a glass half full or a glass half empty person, well, I’m like, the glass is always completely filled to the rim person. And so, yeah, and so I’ve loved every stop in my career and I have really positive memories.

But as I thought about it, not everybody would feel that way. My first job I left because there was a merger, and I know not everybody would reflect positively on a situation like that. So it made me think about, why do I feel positively about situations that weren’t of my choosing or were out of my control? And so it just made me wonder, why do I think about it with fondness? And I came to the conclusion that it’s my mindset that helps me process negative situations or possibly negative situations and turn them into learning experiences that are positive and steps forward. And so that’s, it just made me want to share that with readers that you can turn something that’s maybe not what you wanted into something that’s even better going forward.

JoDee Curtis (24:29)
Yeah, I love it. And if you had to sum up your chapter in a few sentences, how would you describe it? You talked about some of it already, but.

Kerrie Weinzapfel (24:54)
Yeah, so I think all things in life come to an end at some point. Sometimes that ending is of our choice, sometimes it isn’t. And while you can’t always control the situation or the timing, you can control how you let it impact you, how you react to it, and how you use the situation to change your life going forward. My chapter title is “All’s Well That Ends,” and I really do believe that every ending is just the start of a new beginning of a new chapter that can be even better.

JoDee Curtis (25:23)
I love it. Well said. Well said. And why do you think this topic is important for listeners or other readers to understand?

Kerrie Weinzapfel (25:34)
You know, we all face challenges and disappointments in our lives. Maybe it’s career related, you know, and the book, think is work related. So, you know, maybe it’s you’re disappointed because you didn’t get a promotion or something didn’t work out at work, but there’s disappointments throughout life, you know, not even career related. You know, when we’re kids, we don’t all make every varsity sports team or get the lead in the school play or graduate with a 4.0, right? So how…do we react to these endings or these disappointments? I think how you react is really important. And it’s okay to be sad and disappointed for a while, but I don’t think it’s in anyone’s best interest to sit in that mindset. I think the better answer is to process it, process the ending, and then use that to move yourself forward to something that’s even better for you.

JoDee Curtis (26:17)
Right, right. And Kerrie, I’m curious, looking back, when you’re all of your good — not all, not like there were that many, but when you made career changes. Now, you can look back and they were all successful and they all did go well. But were you feeling the glass all the way full to the rim in those moments or did it take you some time to process those?

Kerrie Weinzapfel (26:58)
Oh, sure. You know, as I mention in the book, my dad worked at the same place his entire career. And so to me, that was success. You start a job, you stay there till the day you retire. And with my first stop in my career, when the merger happened and I realized it just wasn’t gonna make sense for me to stay, I was devastated and it felt like failure to me. And it took me a while. mean, there were…days of going into work and I mean it felt like I was dragging a thousand pound weight with me because it was just so hard because I was so sad. But ultimately came to the realization it was okay, know, things change, situations change, and it’s not good for you to stay at a place or stay in any situation that’s not right for you. And in the end I went on to the second stop of my career and was very happy and had a great job that I loved and the place that I left has gone on to be very successful too. So, you know, it was a win-win. But yeah, no, I don’t feel glass full every minute of every day for sure. But I think you can choose to look back on the things that were positive in the situation, think about the things that you learned, and then move forward so that you can go on to be, you know, in an even better situation.

JoDee Curtis (28:03)
Right, right, I love it. And after people read your chapter, what do you hope they will do or take away from your chapter?

Kerrie Weinzapfel (28:33)
I think my greatest hope is that the next time a reader is faced with a situation that’s beyond their control or not the outcome that they wanted, that they will take the opportunity to look for the blessings that come from the change. That they’ll choose to be joyful and most importantly that they’ll choose to be deliberate about turning the situation into something positive for them. I don’t think you can always wait for those things to happen for you. I think you have to be deliberate and make choices, think about the path forward and then take steps to make that happen for you.

JoDee Curtis (29:06)
Yeah, great advice, great advice. And how can listeners or readers of the book reach out to you if they want to learn more about your chapter and your experiences?

Kerrie Weinzapfel (29:19)
Sure. So my email address is my name, Kerrie Weinzapfel at gmail.com. And because both my first and last names have unusual spellings, I’ll spell it. It’s K-E-R-R-I-E-W-E-I-N-Z-A-P-F-E-L at gmail.com. additionally, ⁓ now that I’ve retired and I have more time to write, I’ve restarted my blog. And so if readers have any interest in following along on my journey in life, I’d love them to follow the blog. And that is my52todo.com.

JoDee Curtis (29:58)
And we’ll put links to both your email and your blog in our show notes as well too. And Kerrie, as you know, you’ve been a former guest on our show as well too. We love to ask a JoyPowered® question to all of our guests. What is one small step people can do in this area to create more joy at work?

Kerrie Weinzapfel (30:01)
Well, I’m certainly not an expert, but in my opinion, being joyful is a choice. So I think it’s just a matter of choosing to be joyful, choosing to look for joy, choosing to look for the positive, and be deliberate about surrounding yourself with others who are joyful and putting yourself in places that bring you joy. And then I think you can share that joy and it spreads.

JoDee Curtis (30:51)
Great advice. And I’ll also say one of the very many reasons why I asked you to join me in writing this book too, because I know that’s your approach. So.

Kerrie Weinzapfel (31:01)
Thank you. It’s been a fantastic experience. I have really enjoyed the process.

JoDee Curtis (31:10)
Thank you. Thanks.

Susan White (31:14)
So JoDee, when does this book come out?

JoDee Curtis (31:16)
So it’ll be released on Amazon on July 9th, that’s 2025. Or if you want a signed copy, you can order them directly from our website at www.getjoypowered.com. And we hope you’ll order a copy.

Susan White (31:37)
JoDee, it’s time for our listener question. How can in-house recruiters be a better partner to the business?

JoDee Curtis (31:45)
Yeah. Well, I think they can do so by gaining an understanding of what the business is and, and learning more about the industry itself. Sometimes I hear people talk about recruiters as, well, they had a list of 10 questions in front of me, but they weren’t very helpful about understanding the role or understanding the business itself. So I think if they take time to meet with hiring managers and learn not only about what’s expected in the role, but how does the entire department or that team support the business to really give them more facts about the company, maybe the company history, an idea of what the future might look like for their organization and incoming employees as well. Certainly, we hope they understand best practices for recruiting and creating a positive candidate experience that reflects well upon the employer and the entire organization. And maybe even challenging hiring managers to think differently about hiring and what skill sets they really need or what else they might do to find the right person for the role. Really almost serving as a consultant about ways to improve their talent pipeline and to bring candidates into a positive culture.

Do you have any additional thoughts on that, Susan?

Susan White (33:34)
I love that you start with, you gotta understand the business that you’re recruiting for. And not only because you’re going to be talking to candidates who are going to ask you questions and you want to be able to give authentic, credible answers, but also I think that demonstrates to the business that you really do care about finding the right person to meet their business needs. So I just love that that’s where you focused. I also loved your thought about you’re an internal consultant. Most recruiters or talent acquisition professionals, they are filling jobs every hour of every day or at least several times a week, whereas that hiring manager might fill a job once every six months. They don’t have, this is not an area of expertise for them. As an internal consultant, you can bring to bear all of your experience. They may be the most wonderful general manager of a plant and they’re great at it, but they don’t know the stuff that you know. bring your inquisitive, curious mind about so that you really understand the business and understand the job. but bring your expertise, help coach, advise, consult with that internal client. And I think you’re gonna be thought of as a great partner to your business.

JoDee Curtis (34:41)
Great advice. Now it’s time for in the news. According to Gallup’s most recent State of the Global Workforce Report, globally, fully remote workers are the most likely to be engaged at work. I thought that was interesting. They’re at 31% compared to 23% for both hybrid workers and on-site remote capable workers.

Employee engagement measures the enthusiasm workers feel for their work and their attachment to their team and organization. And it directly affects team performance and business outcomes. Of course, for remote workers, they may be more engaged because they have more autonomy in their work and that freedom allows them to play to their strengths and maybe reach a flow state more easily and maybe use their time more efficiently. On the other hand, fully remote workers are less likely to be thriving in their lives, which is interesting. They’re only at 36% versus hybrid workers and on-site remote capable workers who are both at 42%.

So fully remote workers are also more likely to report experiencing anger, sadness, and loneliness than hybrid on-site and on-site workers, which we’ve heard and talked about that many times before. They are more likely to report experiencing a lot of stress than on-site workers and about the same amount of stress as hybrid workers.

And by the way, these differences and percentages hold true no matter how much the employee makes or what level they’re at. These findings do suggest that being a fully remote worker is often more mentally and emotionally taxing than working on site or working hybrid.

Susan White (36:38)
Interesting.

JoDee Curtis (36:54)
A few factors that might explain that is just the physical distance can create mental distance. Remote work might feel like just work when you’re not always building friendships, going to lunch with people, telling stories. And that isolation can include increased loneliness. Just having the autonomy or much more autonomy can also be stressful. Many employees want more autonomy in their work. And we just told you it boosted engagement. But sometimes when we feel like we’re doing that all by ourselves and independently, we also don’t… it can become more difficult for us to set clear boundaries or to not have others impose clear boundaries on us. And then the last thing is that technology can be frustrating sometimes. And when you’re remote, you may be fully depending on technology. And that can require high levels of coordination connecting with other people. It just isn’t always smooth. And that frustration can vary by task and role too. Yeah, interesting report.

Susan White (38:23)
Makes sense.

If you’re SHRM certified, you can get credit for listening to this episode. To get the code, go to getjoypowered dot com slash SHRM and fill out a short evaluation. When you finish the evaluation, you’ll get the code and a link to a proof of participation certificate. The code will expire on June 16th, 2026. Again, that’s getjoypowered.com slash shrm to get the code and it’s going to expire on June 16th, 2026. Thank you for listening and thank you for your dedication to the HR profession.

JoDee Curtis (39:07)
Please tune in next time and make it a JoyPowered® day.

Susan White (39:13)
Thank you.