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Tammy Smith (00:02)
Emotions matter because we are human. We are not machines. With the rise of AI, what sets us apart is emotion.

Susan White (00:14)
Welcome to The JoyPowered® Workspace Podcast, where we help HR and business professionals embrace joy in the workplace. I’m Susan White, owner of Susan Tinder White Consulting, an HR Consulting Practice. Joining me is my co-host and dear friend, JoDee Curtis. She’s the owner of Purple Ink, a large-scale HR consulting firm that I’m a part of as an executive collaborator.

Today, we’re gonna discuss emotions at work. Because we are humans, we sometimes find ourselves and those we interact with bringing emotions into the work interactions, which can be a very good thing, right, or a bad thing, depending on the emotion and how we and others manage it. ETFcareer.com posted an article entitled, “Why Emotion at Work is a Key Emerging Issue in 2025.” I feel like it’s been an issue forever, JoDee.

JoDee Curtis (01:09)
Yeah.

Susan White (01:11)
But let’s hear what ETFcareer.com, the kind of points that they made. So the first one is that the cost of going postal in the workplace — JoDee, you remember when that was a very common expression, “going postal,” because unfortunately, in the post office back in the 20th century, wasn’t unusual for employees to get so fed up with environment and the regimen that they would “go postal” and have violence. So that term “going postal” became kind of popular. Glad we don’t hear that term very often. I don’t know about you JoDee, but I, you people do have workplace incidences, but not, I don’t think, to the degree that used to happen. I think a lot more people are watching and trying to intervene early, right?

I think the point is if an employee loses it at work, to whatever degree they lose it, it’s hard for that person to recover fully because even if they apologize, do a lot of mea culpas, the relationships, the trusts are often irreparably damaged. So we can’t, we don’t want that to happen. All right. Let’s, what’s the second point or strong point that ETF career.com made?

JoDee Curtis (02:16)
It was the shift towards emotional awareness. And we certainly hear a lot more about this lately. You might hear it as EQ or emotional intelligence, which is really recognized as a business imperative. You hear a lot now about people used to talk about their EQ, but that now, good leaders are really measured by their — or I’m sorry, you used to hear about their IQ and now we hear about good leaders having good EQ or emotional intelligence, which is really measuring our response to events around us, right? So it could be our own emotions or maybe the emotions of others around us and how different events or situations are impacting them and how did they respond and then how do we respond to their impact.

Susan White (03:30)
Yeah, I think it is terrific that I think that we as business leaders and HR professionals realize that we have to have empathetic leaders that at least recognize others on their team, some emotions so that we could try to relate to them. If we don’t do that, if we don’t equip our leaders to have some good emotional intelligence, we’re going to have high turnover, we’re going to have trouble attracting people, we’re going to have disengaged employees. So I think that is truly a 2025 and beyond issue.

Number three, the article cited artificial intelligence. As most articles are citing today, what’s the impact of artificial intelligence? Well, the fact is the rise of artificial intelligence really is important, but not without human-centric leadership. So figuring out how do we take new ways to quickly automate and to decipher and to figure things out with that empathy, that kindness. So with AI taking over the mundane, hopefully, and the repetitive tasks and the low human value tasks, employees are going to be craving leaders who cultivate collaboration and who help them become more resilient and hopefully provide space and time for innovation.

JoDee Curtis (04:51)
Right. And number four is the hybrid work and the emotional disconnect. I mean, we– truth is, we’re just not around people as much as we used to be, right? People are not always physically near each other, which can make social connections more difficult to foster. We read about loneliness at work, employees not feeling psychologically safe, and that employee engagement is dropping.

And I have to say, even though I’m a huge fan of working virtual and hybrid work, it is really true. I mean, when I think back to my days being in an office, I was surrounded by people every minute of the day, right? Even if they were just walking past my office or stopping into my office for a brief moment and now I’m not. I spend the majority of my day alone and certainly you can build and foster relationships on Zoom or on Teams or as we do with the podcast, but it’s different for sure.

Susan White (06:10)
You’re right. There really is a business case to be made for helping employees manage emotions at work. ETFCareer cites a 2024 CIPD report that says 25% of UK employees experienced at least one workplace conflict last year. That’s one out of four employees. And so what were those conflicts? Well, they actually cited them. The number one, 48% of the respondents to the survey said that the conflict arose from being undermined or humiliated at work.

JoDee Curtis (06:48)
35% said they were involved in a heated workplace argument.

Susan White (06:54)
34% said they were the recipient of verbal abuse or insults.

JoDee Curtis (06:59)
Ugh, that just sounds terrible.

Susan White (07:02)
It does. Well, given that this is a real issue, emotions showing up in the workplace, not always in a positive vein, we decided to invite an expert to join us to talk about emotions at work.

Let me tell you about our guest today. Tammy Smith, RN, is a certified wellness and leadership coach. She helps leaders thrive and excel without burnout by blending performance with well-being. With 24 years in health care and leadership, including serving as IU Health’s wellness director, Tammy specializes in resilience, emotional agility, and strengths-based leadership.

Tammy, welcome. So glad that you’re here.

Tammy Smith (07:45)
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Susan White (07:46)
So Tammy, why do you think emotions matter in the workplace?

Tammy Smith (07:51)
Well, first off, would say emotions matter because we are human. We are not machines. With the rise of AI, what sets us apart is emotion. And I believe that emotions are the relational connective tissue in our relationships. And so it’s a basic need for us as humans to know and be known and be understood.

And emotions are a part of how we do that. Emotional intelligence is how we do that. I think a byproduct of, you know, paying attention to our emotions is creating that psychological safety that oftentimes is missing. And so building that trust and psychological safety is a result of paying attention to emotion.

Susan White (08:22)
That makes good sense. Thank you.

JoDee Curtis (08:39)
And Tammy, how do you think emotions play a role in how we make decisions or communicate and just experience work?

Tammy Smith (08:50)
Well, first of all, I think that there’s a layer of complexity to work and human interaction. So you layer complex humans who have heart, head, and hands. So our thoughts, our feelings, our behaviors, and then you intertwine that with the complexity and the ever-changing work landscape. I think it’s one of the things we need to really pay attention to. You know, there’s also just a business case that supports growing this that when you have higher emotional intelligence, there’s better productivity, better creativity. So those play a role.

I think in communication, just your perception and your reception. How are you perceived and how are you received in any given interaction? So our mirror neurons are playing off of one another, right? So as I show up and I interact with JoDee and Susan and they’re smiling and they’re engaging, then I respond in kind. But if I showed up and I was having some uncomfortable emotions, maybe feeling a little frustrated, you might mirror that back. And that can start to result in some conflict or some misunderstanding, maybe some false assumptions.

Susan White (10:17)
Sure. So how can our listeners build self-awareness about our emotions and then use our emotions as signals?

Tammy Smith (10:25)
Well, one of the ways that I think this really shows up is change. So a lot of times there is unpredictableness to work or there’s change that we didn’t expect. And our brains are triggered to, they’re wired to automatically be on the alert for anything that is out of the norm. So unpredictable things alert our brain to say, “danger, danger,” but it’s not always danger. So it’s important to understand that all your emotions are valid. There’s no good or bad emotions. And we just have comfortable or uncomfortable emotions. So by learning to name them, “name it to tame it” is something I like to say, to understand what are those emotions telling me.

So one of the ways you can do that is to use something like a feelings wheel. and start to dig down deeper into underneath those primary emotions or underneath those umbrella emotions. So for example, under fear, it might be I’m nervous or I’m excited or I’m feeling insecure or I’m feeling doubtful. And if you peel back happy, you might find I feel proud or I feel content or I even feel joyful. That’s a nod to you. JoDee, for joy. So better data, you know, gives us the ability to make a better choice. So just like on my car dashboard, if something lights up and I feel like it’s screaming a warning signal to me, it’s a chance for me to take a pause and say, what is that telling me? What is going on?

JoDee Curtis (11:51)
Yeah.

Tammy Smith (12:19)
So look under the hood and say, is there an unmet need? Is there something where I need to pay attention? How about what’s going on in my body? Am I feeling that emotion physically in some way? And a lot of times when we bottle and suppress, those emotions will come out eventually, right? They will demonstrate themselves in migraines or musculoskeletal pain or GI upset, and actually 60 to 80 % of doctor visits are driven by stress-related symptoms.

Susan White (12:55)
Wow.

JoDee Curtis (12:56)
Wow, that’s huge.

Tammy Smith (12:58)
So you might show up at the doctor and say, I just don’t feel good. And they run a battery of tests. And maybe there’s nothing in your lab work that indicates anything is off. But that emotion is playing a role in your body. So those are some signals you can be looking for is paying attention to what your physical body is telling you.

JoDee Curtis (13:12)
Yeah.

Tammy Smith (13:22)
One of the things that I like to point people to is a great model. It’s called nonviolent communication and it’s by Marshall Rosenberg. And he talks about labeling your feelings, then identifying the need. And then you can decide what is the request that I want to make of myself or others.

So an example might be I’m feeling frustrated. I need clarity on the expectations and the timing, maybe the resources allocated to this project. So my request would be, would you be willing to meet and create a project plan so that I could better understand and meet those expectations?

JoDee Curtis (14:10)
I love it. That’s great advice. And speaking of advice, what advice do you have for us to navigate difficult emotions in the workplace? I know, those emotions, it could be our emotions or it could be other people’s emotions as well.

Tammy Smith (14:29)
Absolutely. Well, I think you have to start with self and you have to own it and name it and again, validate that all feelings are normal human emotion. Then decide what kind of thought maybe triggered those emotions. So again, we have that automatic thinking where we can start to dispute it. So to your point of whether it’s going on with myself, or someone else, I can ask myself, is this really true? Is there evidence for or against it? Is this black and white or is the reality a little bit more nuanced or complicated?

Another way I think is to reframe it, it as a challenge, not a threat, or view it as an opportunity versus a deficit. Another way that you can kind of internally regulate is to, a lot of times it’s in the moment, right? There’s something that happens, there’s some emotion in the room. And I think one thing you can do is take note of it. Okay, there’s a lot of energy around this. So that probably means that we need to dig in a little deeper and I need to uncover, for example, with my team, I need to uncover kind of what is behind this emotional energy and spend a little bit more time there.

And then for myself as the leader, before I’m going into a crucial conversation or a high stakes meeting, I think it’s important to maybe do some grounding exercises of either deep breathing or a sensory grounding where I am getting in tune with my five senses. What do I smell? What do I see? What do I taste? What do I feel? These are ways to kind of short circuit that automatic amygdala hijack that can be happening and get yourself regrounded.

JoDee Curtis (16:27)
Yeah.

Susan White (16:27)
Great, great tips.

Talk to us a little bit about emotional agility. How do we strengthen our emotional agility and what is it?

Tammy Smith (16:36)
Emotional agility is a term that I’ve kind of used from Susan David. She is a psychologist and author of the book, Emotional Agility, and I highly recommend her TED Talk. But it’s really about being with your emotions with curiosity, compassion, and courage. And the idea is that you are not your emotions. So you’re holding them loosely and you’re recognizing them, but you’re not controlled by them.

So instead of saying, I am stressed or I am frustrated, it’s I’m feeling frustrated or I’m having the feeling of disappointment. And so it’s recognizing that we can observe the emotion and then we can make a choice that is in alignment with our values. So a lot of this work is really values driven and getting in touch with what’s most important here and how do I want to align my next steps with what I value.

Susan White (17:41)
I like that.

JoDee Curtis (17:43)
That’s really good. Well, what else do we need to know that we haven’t asked you about yet?

Tammy Smith (17:49)
Well, I think that change is possible and that you can navigate through uncomfortable emotions. It’s just again, those neural pathways. I love to hike. And so when I go on a hike, I can see the path because it’s a well-worn path in front of me. Many people have traveled it. Same with your brain. Your brain has traveled down some very well-worn paths with your thinking habits and your emotional habits. But with practice, you can start to make some changes.

And another famous quote from Susan is, “rigidity in the face of complexity is toxic.” And so I think what often happens is we take emotions in the workplace and we either shove them down, shut them down, or we resort to toxic positivity that says, everything’s fine, just keep smiling, everything’s fine. And I think we have a chance to just use some authenticity to validate the normal human experience and bring more relational connection.

Susan White (18:57)
What’s one small step people can do in this area to create more joy at work?

Tammy Smith (19:03)
Well, to me, there’s joy in meaningful connection. At the end of the day, it’s about the work is important and the humans we do it with are important. So getting attuned to my own feelings, as well as the needs of the others that I’m interacting with, is where that joy happens in the meaningful connection. So I often keep a post-it note in front of me that says, how do I want to show up? What’s most important here? And really taking that intentional pause to be attuned to how emotions might be playing a role and then how I can work through them. So to me, that’s where a lot of joy comes from.

JoDee Curtis (19:48)
Yeah,

Susan White (19:49)
Thank you.

JoDee Curtis (19:50)
Nice. And how can our listeners reach out to you if they want to connect or explore this topic more?

Tammy Smith (19:58)
Yeah, I’m excited to be launching my professional coaching business so you can reach me at info at liveleadwellco.com.

JoDee Curtis (20:09)
Very nice, we’ll put that in the show notes as well.

Tammy Smith (20:13)
Awesome, thank you.

Susan White (20:14)
Tammy, thank you so much for coming today and really appreciate you sharing your insights with us. We wish you the very best on the launch of your business.

JoDee Curtis (20:21)
Yeah.

Tammy Smith (20:22)
Thank you so much. Joyful. It was a joyful experience.

Susan White (20:25)
Great.

JoDee Curtis (20:27)
That’s awesome.

JoDee Curtis (20:29)
And now for our listener questions. “How can you make required learning fun at your organization?”

Susan White (20:39)
What a great question because more and more in this era of regulatory requirements happening more and more, that it’s important that we get our employees to be interested in doing the training and to take that mandatory training with an open mind, with a willingness to learn. And often our employees are reluctant.

I used to work with a man who dreaded our annual mandatory training. I was in banking so we had harassment training annually for our leaders. We had — we weren’t training them on how to harass, but it was, you know, how not to harass, right? We had, like, anti-money laundering training. We had other compliance types of things. Anyway, this man prided himself on being able to get right to the assessment at the end and pass it without ever listening or watching the video or the slides that went to get there. And I’d always just shake my head and say, you know, we do change those slides. Please know we do change those, but he says that they’re always common sense. So I always get everything right. So anyway, it was kind of frustrating as a person who contributed to the making of those videos and those slides, but he certainly was a reluctant user.

So I think that fortunately for our listeners and business leaders, I do think there’s ways to make required training more fun. So I’m gonna throw out a few ideas. JoDee, if you’ve got any to add, piggyback on this, I’d love it. And if any of our listeners has maybe a breakthrough thinking on this, please send us a note and let us know.

Online training platforms have gotten more more sophisticated. The opportunity to put in quizzes along the way, to actually have prizes available, badges, let people move to next levels. technology platforms themselves have become more fun. The ability to drop you know, videos and not just doing the same old, same old, maybe having different employees do some testimonials about, hey, here’s something I experienced on this particular thing, and here’s where I went wrong. Here’s where I, in the future, I know to do this thing differently can be very powerful. People seeing people that they can relate to and that they know. Anything else that you can think of, JoDee, maybe, to make required trainings fun?

JoDee Curtis (22:38)
Well, I just think number one, which you mentioned maybe in a different way is telling stories, right? That — maybe harassment’s not always a good one to talk about exactly what happened, but maybe talk about the impact on the person or how they felt or even the feelings of the person doing the harassment who maybe didn’t realize they were making someone else uncomfortable. And again, not to say that that means it was right, but how natural that can happen sometimes. So I love to tell stories.

Susan White (23:40)
I think that’s powerful. You know, some other things that I’ve seen organizations do that I think really works, if it’s synchronous training, if you have a live group, we’ve talked before about having an icebreaker so that people, at least at the beginning of the mandatory training, have an opportunity to know who else is in the room. And maybe if it’s people they know because they work with all the time, get to know them at a deeper level. So maybe do something that’s fun, gets people laughing, people talking.

We do have an episode devoted to team building with a lot of icebreaker ideas if you’re looking for that listeners. It’s called “Team Building” and that episode launched July 1st, 2019.

A second idea, if it’s non-synchronous training, like anytime training that people can go do whenever they’ve got time to go do it, create a reward system where employees can earn points, know, credits or other factor. And when you successfully complete the different episodes that you need to go through, maybe if you already have an employee reward system, maybe they’ve accumulated enough points that they can actually go out and select an award. Or maybe you have gift cards or something so that people actually get some type of a pat on the back for finishing.

And then the third idea that I’ve seen work well is add a fun game at the conclusion. Let people know they will be quizzed on the material, but make it a fun quiz. I know, JoDee, I’ve seen you take leadership on this by having, you know, Jeopardy games or have Wheel of Fortune and let people play on teams. It can really — people are motivated when they know they’re going to be competing to really retain information. So just some more ideas for you to consider, listener. And I hope that helps you, the one who wrote in that question, I hope it helps you try to make some of that mandatory training a little more enjoyable.

JoDee Curtis (25:01)
Right. Yeah, I agree.

Susan White (25:30)
It’s time for In the News. HRdive.com posted an article on August the 1st, 2025, entitled, “Amazon Off Duty Employees Can Use Parking Lots for Union Activity, NLRB Judge Rules.” Amazon warehouse parking lots in Chicago, St. Louis, and New York State had been sites where union organizing efforts were underway before Amazon shut them down.

In the NLRB Administrative Law judge’s July 23rd, 2025 ruling, Amazon was told that they were in the wrong. Employers cannot bar off-duty employees from outside non-working areas, including parking lots, from participating in concerted protected activities, things like discussing wages, working conditions, management practices, unionizing.

Most US private employers and the United States Postal Service should recognize that they are subject to the National Labor Relations Act. So paying attention to NLRB rulings makes sense for all of us. If you’re not unionized today, understand they can still impose their will on you. So you need to pay attention.

JoDee Curtis (26:40)
Yeah, very interesting.

Susan White (26:42)
If you are SHRM certified, you can get credit for listening to this episode. To get the code, go to getjoypowered.com/SHRM and fill out a short evaluation. When you finish the evaluation, you’ll get the code and a link to a proof of participation with a certificate. The code will expire on October 20th, 2026. Again, that’s getjoypowered.com/shrm to get the code and it’s going to expire on October 20th, 2026.

Thank you for listening.

JoDee Curtis (27:20)
Tune in next time and make it a JoyPowered® Day.

Susan White (27:24)
Thank you.